23 replies to this topic

[elchancery]

I have a few thousand Berrys plated bullets sitting around collecting dust and was wondering if anyone has shot these in an open gun. I am currently shooting at approx. 1400 fps with my current loads, any opinions would be appreciated.

[gng4life]

There are literally thousands of discussions on Berrys on the forum but in general, most do not shoot them in Open guns. In fact, Berrys even recommends not going over 1200 fps when shooting them (except for some new thicker ones they sell now). You could try it out since there will be some who say they are okay but most will not. It's better to shoot those in a minor load or sell/trade for some jacketed bullets.

Welcome to the forum!

[A45100]

Plated bullets and open guns just don't like each other at all. Just about everybody who has tried it quickly discovers that the plating peels off coming out of an open gun resulting in some interesting shaped holes in places on target you're pretty sure you were not aiming at.

[warpspeed]

Like the others have said, plated bullets at velocities needed to make major pf are not usually successful. The accuracy becomes well below the needs even for USPSA.

If you have a need for a minor pf load, usch as Steel Challenge or some 3 Gun matches , I'd say you are GTG.

[Cardinal]

Must be something in the American climate, because plated bullets are being used a lot in Europe in open guns (due to cost).
I've been using 124gr Frontier and Berry's in my open gun without problems.
Eric Grauffel uses 147gr Frontiers for training in his open gun.

[gng4life]

Must be something in the American climate, because plated bullets are being used a lot in Europe in open guns (due to cost).
I've been using 124gr Frontier and Berry's in my open gun without problems.
Eric Grauffel uses 147gr Frontiers for training in his open gun.

The Frontiers are thicker than the Berrys. I have some of the Frontier 124 here and tried them out with decent results but not as good as my MG loads and the Berrys were horrible. Still, the Frontier bullets are only slightly cheaper than the MGs I use so I stopped using them.

How does the cost of Frontiers compare with jacketed bullets in Europe and in your country? I know here in the states, if you buy in bulk, jacketed bullets are cheaper than the Berrys.

[The Contender]

Plated bullets and open guns just don't like each other at all. Just about everybody who has tried it quickly discovers that the plating peels off coming out of an open gun resulting in some interesting shaped holes in places on target you're pretty sure you were not aiming at.

And chips on the glass on your optic!

[snake32]

i shoot berrys in my 40 open but will not in my 38sc

[Cardinal]

The Frontiers are thicker than the Berrys. I have some of the Frontier 124 here and tried them out with decent results but not as good as my MG loads and the Berrys were horrible. Still, the Frontier bullets are only slightly cheaper than the MGs I use so I stopped using them.

How does the cost of Frontiers compare with jacketed bullets in Europe and in your country? I know here in the states, if you buy in bulk, jacketed bullets are cheaper than the Berrys.

Frontiers are about $100 per 1000. Berry's are about $110 IIRC.
The berrys 124gr are a lot more consistent in weight than the frontiers which vary from 122.x to 126.x. But the Frontier 147 are better in this regard.

MG/Zero are not generally available here. I know a shooter who have personally imported and sold some MG but you cant count on them being available when you need them. IIRC those MG are about $165 per 1000
You can get Partizan FMJ for about the same prize as the MG.
But other than that you have to jump up to Hornady HAPs from Midway Norway. There 121gr HAPs are about $800 for a case of 2800.
I actually picked up a case of those for $500 which I intend to save for matches and use frontiers for practice.
Sierra/Hornady XTP/Speer Gold Dots JHP in 100 round boxes generally cost around 40-60 cents a bullet... So okay for a 50-60 round bullseye match occasionally but gets expensive for a 300 round IPSC match.

[Eagle40]

I tried 124g Berrys in my Open gun and the accuracy was horrible. I thought it's time to change the barrel.
But, when I switched back to 124 MG-JHP the accuracy improves.
Tried it also in my Limited gun. I used 180g Berry's and the accuracy was bad also even the bullet holes.

[jan]

I shoot berry from my open HPS gun with factor of 170 and the were great.
50 mtr group size off 2 inch.
Berry's 124 gr DS

[Canuck223]

One factor to consider can come off as an insult to many reloaders.

Plated bullets are not the equal of jacketed, but in a lot of cases, the big difference in performance has to do with the reloading, and not the bullet.

There is no question that a plated bullet will come apart faster and with more variability than a jacketed bullet when subjected to higher pressures.
Add in a multi chamber comp and some added transitions, and you're giving that plated bullet plenty of opportunity to misbehave.

Where the reloader adds to the fun is with crimp. Every one of us have our own secret formula, and know more than the other guy how our technique is our secret to the winners circle. And virtually every one of us is wrong. Modesty forbids me from telling you who the mystery guru is.

Plated bullets can't take a crimp. If you start pressing the case mouth into the plating, you are creating the stress point where the jacket will fracture and tear.
If you adjust your crimp die to simply remove the belling, and nothing more, many (not all) of the plated bullet woes will disappear.

[gng4life]

Plated bullets can't take a crimp. If you start pressing the case mouth into the plating, you are creating the stress point where the jacket will fracture and tear.
If you adjust your crimp die to simply remove the belling, and nothing more, many (not all) of the plated bullet woes will disappear.

Many of us on here have been reloading for many, many years and have experimented with plated bullets. It's common knowledge about the thin plating that is fragile with these types of bullets and even though many of us have taken every precaution to make the "perfect" crimp on these bullets, they still fail sometimes. There are many other factors that are involved besides the crimp but that is the usual culprit. Also, crimp means "to press or draw together" so removing the bell is the same as crimping...just not to any degree beyond what is necessary.

This is a good reason why I always recommend jacketed bullets over plated. In the case of the shooter in Norway, well... that's a different story as the prices for jacketed are just crazy. However, here in the US, there is simply no reason to buy an inferior bullet for more money...just doesn't make sense.

[TRUbor9]

Must be something in the American climate, because plated bullets are being used a lot in Europe in open guns (due to cost).
I've been using 124gr Frontier and Berry's in my open gun without problems.
Eric Grauffel uses 147gr Frontiers for training in his open gun.

dont forget the min pf for ipsc vs uspsa. And the fact that most open shooters in the us try to stay between 170-175. When I borrowed a gun in Sweden for an IPSC match the loads were only a 161.78 pf and mine at home are a 171. Which would be about a 1298fps for the 161's and a 1379 for my 171.

[redwoods]

I have heard that berrys is making a new bullet with a thicker plating for use in open guns. I would take the bullets you have and either sell, trade, or load them for use in a production or gun other than an open gun.

Randy

[Cardinal]

dont forget the min pf for ipsc vs uspsa.

True.

But I load to around 170pf. 1350-1380fps
I wouldn't want a 161.78 load, way too marginal.

[shooter.860]

I have heard that berrys is making a new bullet with a thicker plating for use in open guns. I would take the bullets you have and either sell, trade, or load them for use in a production or gun other than an open gun.

Randy

this is true, just recieved my HBTP 124g 9mm. HBTP = hollow base thick plate.
I have yet to load any.

[Canuck223]

This is a good reason why I always recommend jacketed bullets over plated. In the case of the shooter in Norway, well... that's a different story as the prices for jacketed are just crazy. However, here in the US, there is simply no reason to buy an inferior bullet for more money...just doesn't make sense.

Agreed. I do use Berrys and Frontier, but primarily in calibers or weights where I don't have as many options locally.

[TRUbor9]

I have heard that berrys is making a new bullet with a thicker plating for use in open guns. I would take the bullets you have and either sell, trade, or load them for use in a production or gun other than an open gun.

Randy

this is true, just recieved my HBTP 124g 9mm. HBTP = hollow base thick plate.
I have yet to load any.

I recieved about 200 from berry's for testing. I haven't had any issues yet but I've only run about 100 of them with working up the load to major. I'll probably stick with my 124JHP's for matches

[SirLoin]

1) Which is more accurate: Berrys or Frontier? I've been shooting .40 S&W Berrys mostly but am thinking of switching to Frontier.

2) Frontiers are sized to .400, while Berrys are sized to .401. I thought that .401s were better for plated, since you reduce the risk of crimping too tight and warping the bullet? Or are the Frontiers sufficiently harder than Berrys to compensate for it being .400?

This is a good reason why I always recommend jacketed bullets over plated. In the case of the shooter in Norway, well... that's a different story as the prices for jacketed are just crazy. However, here in the US, there is simply no reason to buy an inferior bullet for more money...just doesn't make sense.

Agreed. I do use Berrys and Frontier, but primarily in calibers or weights where I don't have as many options locally.

[olp73]

Must be something in the American climate, because plated bullets are being used a lot in Europe in open guns (due to cost).
I've been using 124gr Frontier and Berry's in my open gun without problems.
Eric Grauffel uses 147gr Frontiers for training in his open gun.

+1

[DVC1911]

I have had very good results in shooting Berry bullets in both of my open guns. (9 major, and 9x40.

I am using the 124 grain 9mm round nose. There basic bullet. Price is $70.00/1000, (this includes taxes)

Speed that I am running them at are a minimum 1450FPS.

Accuracy, under 2" group at 25 yards.

As test I wanted to see how fast I could push the bullets, I got up to 1822 FPS and stopped because of pressure signs. The bullet held up.

DVC

[HoMiE]

As test I wanted to see how fast I could push the bullets, I got up to 1822 FPS and stopped because of pressure signs. The bullet held up.

DVC

226+PF!!! Bullet held up, I'm surprised gun held up.

[DVC1911]

If it built right, and you use quality parts, the 1911 is an exceptional strong gun.

By the way 200 plus power factor really makes the comp work well. It is a really LOUD!!

DVC