8 replies to this topic

[PHX]

Hello,
About 5 month ago I installed a Henning flat trigger system in my limited. I Love the new trigger, and think it is a great improvement over the factory trigger. The only problem I have with the trigger is the adjustments of pre travel and over travel. If you watch the instructional videos henning made to help with the install at the end he covers these two aspects of the trigger. In the video he gets the trigger set so there is VERY little pre and over travel in the trigger. I am able to get this as well. With the slide off I can cock the hammer and drop it by hand. The trigger is perfect at this point. Once the upper assembly goes on the frame the gun wont function. I cycle the slide and pull the trigger to drop the hammer, and nothing happens. The only way to get the hammer to drop is back off the pre and over travel screws. I am then left with "slop" in the pre and over travel. Does anyone else have this problem, or am I just doing something wrong? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I don't know if it makes a difference but I have the factory hammer and sear in the gun still. Would switching to EGW fix the problem. I was under the assumption the EGW hammer and sear would only reduce trigger pull and make the trigger more "crisp".

Last question, Have any of you with this trigger system played with the trigger return springs, or trigger plunger springs? Did it help reduce the trigger pull weight?

Thanks

[splashdown]

Just a guess here, is there a firing pin block that is not being engaged because of your adjustments?
If you back off the adjustments, how much "slop" in the trigger are we talking about?

(Now, waiting for my Skydiver friend to chime in later. He shoots these guns.)

[Mo Hepworth]

How about the trigger bar? is the slide pressing the two ears down pushing the bar down?

[PHX]

The firing pin block has been removed, and im assuming the 2 ears of the trigger bar are being pressed down. With the "slop added the hammer will drop with the slide on so I dont thing the trigger bar being depressed is the issue. Just in case, how would I check for this with the slide on?

Ill take some measurements of the "slop" later today and let you know. It is not horrible, but I would prefer to have it almost non existent if possible like in the henning video.

[Mo Hepworth]

I ask this...as you mentioned it malfunctioning with the slide on...the only thing that changes is the position of the trigger bar. (as you said you have no FPB)

I slightly trimmed the ears as I had installed the new stock3 trigger kit (which means a new trigger bar, sear(s)) and the trigger bar was getting pushed down out the way during DA too sometimes..
Not sure if this has anything to do with your problem, but process of elimination would be your path.

[Skydiver]

Maurice has it right on the money about the trigger bar riding lower when you put the slide on.

Is the sear on your gun completely stock, or did you previously do a trigger job and trim the leg on the sear that gets pushed by the trigger bar hoping to get a shorter reset? Did you reshape the corner of the trigger bar that pushes against the sear leg when pulling the trigger?

The first thing I would check is simulate the trigger bar being pushed down by the slide. Note how far down the ears are on the inside of the frame. Next, pull the hammer back and keep holding it back. Press the trigger bar all the way down, ease the hammer back unto the sear, and then bring the trigger bar back up to to simulated level. The corner of the trigger bar should come back up to be in front of the sear leg. If not, you'll need to let the pre-travel out more so that it can engage the sear after each shot.

Once you know that the sear is being engaged, again keeping that simulated level for the trigger bar, squeeze the trigger. Obviously, you need to make sure that the hammer hooks as well as the half-cock clear the edge of the sear. If hammer hooks don't clear cleanly, obviously the hammer will not fall. If the half-cock catches on the sear, either the hammer will not stop form falling at best, or that the sear face will get beaten up by the half-cock each time it goes swinging by.

Let me recommend that you have at least some pre-travel and a little bit of overtravel. Unless you have:
- the Henning sear pin to tighten up the sear to sear cage fit;
- added silver solder, shim, or figure out some other mechanism to tighten up the sear cage to frame fit; and
- the Henning hammer pin to tighten up the hammer to frame fit
you will have some "slop" in the system. The easiest way to deal with this is to have a bit more pre-travel and over travel to account of the movement and fit of those parts.

Yes, playing with the trigger return and plunger springs affect the pull weight. You'll want to ensure that you have enough trigger return pressure to always reset the trigger. I believe that Henning offers a couple different trigger return springs and plunger springs. I read somebody once posted that they got a lot of success using the spring from retractable ballpoint pen.

Also remember that friction is a function of the normal force and the coefficient of friction. The plunger provides the normal force, and the areas of friction are:
- between the plunger head and the area under the trigger bar; and
- between the ears of the trigger bar and the notched out area under the slide.

Edited by Skydiver, 08 April 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[PHX]

Thanks for the input skydiver. I bought the gun from the original owner, and he made no mention of any trigger work being done to the gun. I havent touched the sear or hammer either. Ill try the things you mentioned when I get home today.

Im curious why the action will work properly when the trigger bar is not in the position it would be when the slide is on. Why would the function change when the trigger bar is pushed further into the frame when the slide is on. I dont have the gun infront of me now, so im going off memory. I would think with the trigger bar sitting higher the action would be less prone to work. In other words it would be more dificult for the sear and trigger bar to set where they need to for the hammer to drop properly.

Thanks

[Skydiver]

The flat spot on the trigger bar that pushes against the sear leg may not be perfectly flat, and additionally it will not be in the same orientation when it is riding high without the slide on versus being lower with the slide on.

Think of it this way: Have a a book end to the right and a book to the left. If the book is standing perfectly vertical when you move the book towards the bookend, the flat face of the book will be against the flat face of the book end when you move the book to the right. Now tilt the book to the left. As you move the book towards the bookend, the bottom corner of the book will contact the bookend sooner. The book is the trigger bar face, and the book end is the sear leg face. If you make all your adjustments based on the travel tilted trigger bar face, when the trigger bar's orientation changes, all your adjustments will be off.

[PHX]

That makes total sense now. That's for the explination.