25 replies to this topic

[mark dye]

Like most on here, I have been primarily a pistol/rifle guy for years. I am recently on a quest to broaden my horizons. I have always been told that shotgun fit is very important since your eye is essentially the rear sight. Despite the importance of fit to proper shotgun shooting, it doesn't seem like a lot of people are actually good at it. It seems like mostly hearsay and voodoo. Length of pull seems easy enough, but drops and casts make it a little more complicated. To make it harder still, I also hear that it is very hard to fit a shotgun to anyone who is not already a pretty good shotgun shooter, since a newbie will never mount the gun the same way twice.

Yesterday, I picked up a bunch of shotguns and did the "closed eye test" for drop. I assumed my shooting stance, picked out a distant object, closed my eyes and mounted the gun. When I opened my eyes, I found that with most guns I am looking at the back of the receiver. Out of the whole lot, only one seemed to come up with me looking straight down the rib. It was an older Winchester 101. That particular gun has less drop than any other gun that I tried. It has a bit of a monte carlo cut with a drop at the comb of 1 9/16 and a drop at the mid-point of 1 5/8. After the step down of the cheekpiece, the drop at the heel is 2 3/8. Does this sound reasonable? I am a pretty average 5'09 and 175 lbs with reasonably short arms and neck, and a thin face. I also tend to really weld my face to the stock. Is it possible that I push my face into the stock too hard? Is there anything else that I could be doing that would give me a false reading?

Mark

[pjb45]

Todd Bender knows a tad bit about shotguns.


http://www.shotgunwo...?f=235&t=281203

try this link

Edited by pjb45, 13 March 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[AlamoShooter]

Fit is important ...But the neck is a very bendy thing. The next time you try the test with Looking start with your face forward like you are about to shoot a speed stage and you want to make a fast start . Or like a beautiful woman just asked for a kiss and you lean forward to make sure you herd her.
This forward face / aggressive face is one way to make more guns fit you sooner.

Mount the gun you like pointed at the distant object thin close your eyes and dismount and remount with out moving your face. That will tell you more about the gun fit than anything.
The trick is in mounting the gun with out moving your face.
I will send you a bill.

your face moves into position before the gun gets to your shoulder

Edited by AlamoShooter, 13 March 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Pat Miles]

Spend $30.00 and buy a book called the "Stock Fitter's Bible" on Amazon.com. After reading it, maybe more than once, you will have a better understanding of the correct fit of a shotgun and what has to be done to achieve it.
Pat

[West Texas Granny]

Granted I'm new at trap but I think having your head straight up provides a better field of vision than like I experience using a field gun (1100) with my head down and across the stock. Hope to get fitted here soon..

[pjb45]

I would listen to Pat.

I have known this guy for more than week. He works on a lot of folks guns around here.

He just got bitten by the shotgunning bug, so he is doing a pretty intense research on everything related to shotguns; trap, skeet, sporting clays, 5 stand.

[gdboytyler]

I was also mostly rifle and pistol. When I started shooting 3-gun matches last year, I upgraded from a 30 yr old pump shotgun to a Mossberg 930 autoloader.

I decided to take a skeet shooting clinic to help me out with the occasional clay pigeon target in the 3-gun matches. The first thing the skeet coach did was check the fit of the Mossberg. The coach adjusted the fit by taping foam / cardboard to the top of my stock; ugly but it worked. The coach recommended getting "Convert-A-Stock" to replace the foam and tape. Here's a link: http://www.meadowind...ks.html#convert

After getting the skeet clinic, at my very next 3-gun match, the shotgun only stage went from being my worse stage of the match to my best stage of the match. For me, getting the shotgun to fit better helped my overall shotgun skills, not just for skeet.

I got the convert-a-stock model with the most shims. I can adjust the stock for when I use a red dot for 3-gun, then remove shims and red dot for skeet shooting. Much cheaper than buying a different shotgun that fit me properly,

[pjb45]

I shot skeet with my dad and Pat's dad 40 years ago. I have a Browning Superposed that fits me perfectly.

I stopped shooting skeet for 30 years.

I started shooting clays last year. I am using my Dad's Beretta. It is a great gun but the fit does not work very well for me.

Hence, Get your gun fitted to you. A properly fitted gun will improve your ability to hit the birds.

[warpspeed]

The entire reason for getting a stock "fitted" is to insure repeat-ability.

Remember, your eye is the rear sight and if ever time you mount the gun your eye is in a different place, the shot will go a different place even though you think you are looking in the same place as last time.

If your gun is fitted to you and your style then you greatly increase the chance that you will consistently repeat the location of your eye as the rear sight.

It is very important to pattern your gun. It is just like zeroing your rifle or pistol.

The Stock Fitter Bible by Rolin Oswald is an excellent read.

[crazyloks]

hello all

there are a few good fitting and instruction videos on utube from OSB sports it might be OSB shooting school(i think that is the name). also i use a mirror to find gun fit just like i used a mirror for drawing pistol practice. you mount your gun in front of a mirror with both eyes closed when u open shooting eye it should be starrin right at your eye on the mirror with the front bead right in the middle of your eye. tihs also builds consistency has helped me a lot.

[Ross Carter]

The entire reason for getting a stock "fitted" is to insure repeat-ability.

Remember, your eye is the rear sight and if ever time you mount the gun your eye is in a different place, the shot will go a different place even though you think you are looking in the same place as last time.

If your gun is fitted to you and your style then you greatly increase the chance that you will consistently repeat the location of your eye as the rear sight.

It is very important to pattern your gun. It is just like zeroing your rifle or pistol.

The Stock Fitter Bible by Rolin Oswald is an excellent read.

Another vote for the Rolin Oswald book. I have contacted him directly and found he was very helpful when I had a unusual problem.

Edited by Ross Carter, 05 April 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[crazyloks]

a few thing i learned in shotgun fitting. if you are fitting the gun to your self use a mirror and mount your gun with eyes closed. then open your eyes. you should be looking at your self with a bead between the shooting eye and the one in the mirror. also i used this fro practice. to get reputabilityon gun mount. also go to the shooting range and use the pattern board. put a mark on the pattern board. shoot at it like it were a clay. then see the point of impact.now to get good fit point of aim and impact should be the same. when i did this my gun was way left so i had to change the cast or sand a divit in the wood stock to fit face in properly. kept sanding until the gun lined up and watched shot pattern move to the right until i was satisfied with point of impact and point of aim the same

also if you learn better by watching some body. there are a few good videos on youtube. they are from OSP shooting school he give goood tips

hope this helps you
jb

[LSnSC]

You dont need to bury your face into the gun. We start new shooter off by attempting to get an "acceptable" gun fit. Once they have been shooting a while it can be fine tuned. No use to get a gun custom fitted before you learn to properly mount it.
Make what adjustments you can to get the bead centered in you pupil when looking down the rib into a mirror.

[JD45]

There is too much in stock fitting to put in one post, but at least make sure the length of pull is not too short. I like to see the base of the thumb at least 1 1/2" from your nose.

As far as the "cheek weld" goes, yes some people press too hard. I've seen 105lb. 14 yr. old girls shoot a 4-day trap shoot and never get a bruised cheek. Yet, some huge guys will eat their faces up in 100 shots.

Gun fit does matter, but you can overdo the cheek pressure. And please, don't press the bone of your cheek into the comb!

It just needs to be consistent. I let the skin/fat under my cheek bone be my guide. It is compressed the same every time, but not digging into bone.

Edited by JD45, 01 May 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[ZoomZoom]

I'm going waaaaaay off the reservation and say when I switched to the Wendell Cherry way of shooting, I found my fit was vastly less important then it had ever been.

Yes, my gun is pretty well fit BUT I can pick up most any shotgun and shoot just as well.

I know, it's total shotgun fit heresy but I'll never go back to being so 'into' the gun.

100% focus on the target, merging with the speed/direction of a target and breaking the shot when that happens. Not a mila second later...

Discalimer: I went from class D to B with punches in A in 14 month before I start using his method but I ain't George Digweed.

[us820]

I can't really tell you what is right how to fit it to you,but I can look and tell somebody what is wrong looking.I will say that stock fit is very important.I do buy into the fact that

almost nobody fits an off the rack gun.Now I currently shoot a custom made stock but if I ever had it stolen,I would get a stock that is close and put an adjustable comb and butt plate on

it and be able to make it fit.I pretty much just let the weight of my head rest on the comb.I do not push into the comb...You will find as you shoot more,you will develop a consistent mount

that will make it easier to find what fits you.


I would get out to a skeet or trap event and watch how the good shooters are on their gun.The best guys will look perfect.
**I had a great pic but it won't let me post links yet???**
Vincent Hancock.Head is up with good vision.Head,gun,shoulders,and arms are a unit.

[Irishlad]

That particular gun has less drop than any other gun that I tried. It has a bit of a monte carlo cut with a drop at the comb of 1 9/16 and a drop at the mid-point of 1 5/8. After the step down of the cheekpiece, the drop at the heel is 2 3/8.

In short, that sounds reasonable and it gives you an idea of what you might want. That would still be considered a 'flatter' shooting stock for many shooters. Are you shooting skeet, trap or sporting...hunting?
Trap stocks might be 1 3/8" at the comb and then parallel or a little drop at the heel. Monte Carlo would have more drop at heal of course. "Short necks" like mine , generally don't require Monte Carlos...but whatever works!!

If you had a choice, always go with a stock that's higher...easier to take away 'wood', than add it.
Or adjustable comb is easy if it comes with it.

Try to apply the same cheek pressure when trying stocks as you do shooting...if you can.

Stock fitting is 'voodoo', but you can get the length and height of the stock correct with a little effort...like you are doing now.

Good luck

[canuk]

When I opened my eyes, I found that with most guns I am looking at the back of the receiver. ..........Is it possible that I push my face into the stock too hard? Is there anything else that I could be doing that would give me a false reading?

Mark

You have just discovered that most shotguns in NA are too low. They promote shooting with your head off the stock. You cannot push your face into the stock too hard.. stay the course!

The first think I do to and beretta or benelli auto is put the highest shim in and it is barely enough. My o/u's have fitted stocks so that's not an issue.

[Chills1994]

I'm going waaaaaay off the reservation and say when I switched to the Wendell Cherry way of shooting, I found my fit was vastly less important then it had ever been.

Yes, my gun is pretty well fit BUT I can pick up most any shotgun and shoot just as well.

I know, it's total shotgun fit heresy but I'll never go back to being so 'into' the gun.

100% focus on the target, merging with the speed/direction of a target and breaking the shot when that happens. Not a mila second later...

Discalimer: I went from class D to B with punches in A in 14 month before I start using his method but I ain't George Digweed.

Off to google Wendell Cherry and George Digweed...

[S391]

Granted I'm new at trap but I think having your head straight up provides a better field of vision than like I experience using a field gun (1100) with my head down and across the stock. Hope to get fitted here soon..

Trap guns are set up very different than clays gun. Trap guns are set up to shoot rising targets so most guys like 80 - 100% of their pattern to impact above the point of aim. Clays guns are set up for a 50/50 or a 60 / 40 pattern distribution..... Trap and Sporting clays are two very different games with two very different set of requirements.

Stock fitting is not voodoo but it does take someone who has been trained to know what they are doing. The problem is too many people think they know what they are doing and they end up mucking it up. Your ultimate goal is to have the gun shoot where you are looking when you complete a proper gun mount. Note - if you have an inconsistent gun mount you are never going to be able to A) determine what dimensions you really need and be able to take advantage of a properly fit gun once you get there.

Length of pull is the foundation... you want your eye to be 2.5 - 3" back from the bump of the comb when you mount the gun. once that is set you and shoot the gun at a pattern plate to get an idea of what you need to adjust.

I I would take the time to work on my gun mount every night... mount the gun in front of a mirror 50 - 100 times to build up the muscle memory... Once you have a consistent gun mount then you can tackle the issue of proper fit.

Michael Yardley has one of the best books on proper gunfitting and it is worth reading if you like that sort of stuff.

Edited by S391, 20 February 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[Tim James]

This thread is a year old but thanks for bumping it. I'd like to get back into casual 5 stand and sporting clays. My 870 Express beats the shit out of my face after 100 rounds. I can't see down the rib unless I dig my cheek into it. (Funny story: I shot clays with my groomsmen and later realized I'd have a yellow bruise on my cheek at the wedding; luckily it was barely noticeable.)

I was going to buy a cheap semi-auto to see if that helped. What I learned from this thread is I only need to get a gun that's "good enough" and then worry about fitting it later when I'm better at mounting consistently. The most important thing for me seems to be finding a gun where I don't need to bury my cheek to see down the rib. I ought to be able to do that at a store by myself. (If I'm missing something, let me know.)

This will help me overcome analysis paralysis without needing to find an expert right away. Thanks everyone.

[Pat Miles]

7.)

I was going to buy a cheap semi-auto to see if that helped. What I learned from this thread is I only need to get a gun that's "good enough" and then worry about fitting it later when I'm better at mounting consistently. The most important thing for me seems to be finding a gun where I don't need to bury my cheek to see down the rib. I ought to be able to do that at a store by myself. (If I'm missing something, let me know.)

Your thoughts are just about 180 degrees wrong! A poor fitting shotgun will always be a poor fitting shotgun and all the effort in the world to make up for the poor fit by trying to mount it will never help. You say that you have to bury your cheek in the stock just to see down the rib. Bad fit! You are trying to modify your face, head and body to fit the gun instead of modifying the gun to fit you. Do yourself a huge favor and buy Rollin's book ($20.00 cheap) and learn about fitting your gun to you.
Pat

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Listen to Pat! He spent a half hour with me on my shotgun and I am hitting more birds than before. I even beat him on one stage at the 5-stand match we just had. I sucked on the rest of it but that one stage was great Think of a good fitting shotgun like a good pair of shoes. If they are not comfortable you won't wear them. I am reading Rollin's book right now to learn more. It is very interesting. Thanks, Eric

[Tim James]

Your thoughts are just about 180 degrees wrong! A poor fitting shotgun will always be a poor fitting shotgun and all the effort in the world to make up for the poor fit by trying to mount it will never help. You say that you have to bury your cheek in the stock just to see down the rib. Bad fit! You are trying to modify your face, head and body to fit the gun instead of modifying the gun to fit you. Do yourself a huge favor and buy Rollin's book ($20.00 cheap) and learn about fitting your gun to you.
Pat

No, I was echoing people above who said it was difficult to fit a gun (with an expert or your book) to a new shooter. That's me. I don't intend to continue using my 870 that beats me up. I'd like to find a new semi-auto that gets me close enough to run a few months of sporting clays, then really dig into the gun fit.

Part of this is motivational -- I'll never bother to work on gun fit unless I start shooting clays again, and I don't want to shoot clays unless I get a gun that beats me up less than the 870. Once I do, I'll put the time into getting it fit perfectly. That's just my personality.

If the book will help me evaluate guns for purchase, I will check it out now.

If the semi-auto will make very little difference compared to a pump gun, then I'll wait until I'm motivated to fit my 870. I'm not trying to be the guy that throws money at the problem. But I can afford to buy a new semi-auto that fits "good enough for now" if it will help in the long run and get me out shooting sooner rather than later.

Edited by Tim James, 20 February 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Gas guns will not beat you up like your 870. I have a Remington Versa Max and 2 Beretta AL391's. The Versa Max kicks less but does not fit me as well as the Beretta's. I have shot a couple 870's and did not like them. I have a bad shoulder but it has not bothered me at all shooting all 3 guns. There are alot of great shotguns out there and great prices. It seems the shotgun sports are kinda in a slump right now so great guns are up for sale. Thanks, Eric