28 replies to this topic

[Ofishl1]

I am going from my Limted Edge .40 to try my hand in Open class with .38SC, hunting down mags, holster, etc and I have read a lot about mags and base pads, I get all that, went thru it with my Edge.
What am I missing with all the discussion about SV or STI tubes? I dont know much about Open guns, so here is probably the dumb question of the day,.. but isnt an STI frame only going to run STI mags?

[gng4life]

No, the older SV tubes fit fine in the STI guns. The big advantage with 9mm is that with older SV mags, they do not need spacers to run. To complicate it further, there is a whole other topic on STI mags needing or not needing spacers to run 9mm so let's not get into that. I run spacers in my STI 9mm mags but some don't and have no problems but some do. In .40, there is not as much of an advantage since you don't have to worry about the length issues. I have both SV and STI tuned and untuned .40 mags that all run in my STI guns.

The new SV mags are a little different in dimensions but the most obvious difference is the mag catch hole. So getting the newer SV mags to work in STI guns can be done but it's a lot of work I'm told.

[Ofishl1]

Ok, I think there was another comment in the 30 posts I read about new SV mags presenting a challenge to someone else with an STI frame, so would you recommend just buy new mags for my first venture,... or look around for used ones?

[al503]

If you have the resources, bite the bullet and purchase a set of tuned mags from a reputable source. Unless they're consistently stepped on, dropped on concrete, put in the garbage disposal, etc., they will last a very long time. In addition, if you have issues with your pistol, you'll be able to focus on the pistol instead of the mags (in most cases.)

[shootingchef]

STI mags seem to need tuning out of the package. Dawson sells a tuning kit....Older SV mags work great in the plastic grips. As for 9, SV's work well, I use the same mags for both 9mm and 38sc with no problems in my Infinity pistols.

[Ofishl1]

STI mags seem to need tuning out of the package. Dawson sells a tuning kit....Older SV mags work great in the plastic grips. As for 9, SV's work well, I use the same mags for both 9mm and 38sc with no problems in my Infinity pistols.

I had to do some tweaking on my 140mm STis tubes to get them to run in my edge, but they have run great, and i just followed suggetions from STi and they run and run, I am assuming that the same process will have to be done with new 140mm from SVi, question is do I buy new??,,,or dig for used and buy new guts...? rebuild??

Edited by Ofishl1, 19 February 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[shootingchef]

I have a set of STI 140 tubes for 38. If your interested . You will need guts and base pads.

[gng4life]

I would recommend buying a set of tuned mags and focus on shooting instead of worrying about mag issues. A majority of malfunctions are due to mag issues so have fun shooting instead of dealing with mags.

[Chris Keen]

SVI

[40S&W]

STI. I bought 140mm & 170mm tubes from Thunder Mountain, Dawson SNL Pads, and Gramms spring follower kits. Get 24 reloadable from the 140mm & 29 reloadble from the 170mm. No tuning or anything just assembled and that is what I got. All mags are reliable & no issues to date. Maybe I was lucky, but the Thunder Mountian tubes are great.

[Flatland Shooter]

I shoot 9 Major exclusively.

My STI magazines were purchased as a tuned set from Brazos. They did not recommend them for 9mm (actually they were not recommended for anything loaded shorter than 1.200") but since I load long (1.195")I thought I'd give them a try. As long as I keep the springs in good order, they work excellent.

In my SVI magazines, several of the 140's were tuned and several were not. All run excellent. Of my 170's, one was tuned by Howard Smith and one was modified and semi-tuned by Freedom Gunworks. The FGW tuned magazine is one of the new style SVI magazines. Both run excellent and drop freely from my plastic gripped STI.

Back when I ran a Paraordinance Open gun, magazine problems were a common plight. When I moved to an STI, I decided that if something went wrong, it would not be the magazine.

So I decided to go with the best I could acquire and not look back. No regrets.

Bill

[Ofishl1]

I agree with getting the best like you said, thats why I was curious about STi vs SV, I worked with David Cupp at Sti to get NEW 140's for my EDGE to run...at all, ..and he was a great help to note.

So I am familiar with some of the wranglings that may be needed with these critters. I see there are 11mm bases from Grams, is that what most are using to get the max capacity per tube?

[Ofishl1]

I shoot 9 Major exclusively.

My STI magazines were purchased as a tuned set from Brazos. They did not recommend them for 9mm (actually they were not recommended for anything loaded shorter than 1.200") but since I load long (1.195")I thought I'd give them a try. As long as I keep the springs in good order, they work excellent.

In my SVI magazines, several of the 140's were tuned and several were not. All run excellent. Of my 170's, one was tuned by Howard Smith and one was modified and semi-tuned by Freedom Gunworks. The FGW tuned magazine is one of the new style SVI magazines. Both run excellent and drop freely from my plastic gripped STI.

Back when I ran a Paraordinance Open gun, magazine problems were a common plight. When I moved to an STI, I decided that if something went wrong, it would not be the magazine.

So I decided to go with the best I could acquire and not look back. No regrets.

Bill

So, I gather either STI or even the new style SV would be solid choices, some mention of older SV tubes running good in STI frames, how would you identify those?

Thanks O1

[Jadeslade]

Try them. Sometimes you have to open the mag catch hole. But really, if you get an open gun from somebody, they should give you at least three mags that work. New. So for new STI-new STI mags. Old SVI gun-old SVI mags. New SVI, new SVI mags. Two longs and a short should do it. They need to be kept in spec and cleaned and oiled and maintained like the gun. Have fun. DVC. Thee is nothing cheap or inexpensive here. No magic.

[gng4life]

I shoot 9 Major exclusively.

My STI magazines were purchased as a tuned set from Brazos. They did not recommend them for 9mm (actually they were not recommended for anything loaded shorter than 1.200") but since I load long (1.195")I thought I'd give them a try. As long as I keep the springs in good order, they work excellent.

In my SVI magazines, several of the 140's were tuned and several were not. All run excellent. Of my 170's, one was tuned by Howard Smith and one was modified and semi-tuned by Freedom Gunworks. The FGW tuned magazine is one of the new style SVI magazines. Both run excellent and drop freely from my plastic gripped STI.

Back when I ran a Paraordinance Open gun, magazine problems were a common plight. When I moved to an STI, I decided that if something went wrong, it would not be the magazine.

So I decided to go with the best I could acquire and not look back. No regrets.

Bill

So, I gather either STI or even the new style SV would be solid choices, some mention of older SV tubes running good in STI frames, how would you identify those?

Thanks O1

No, the new SV tubes will only work in STI guns if they have been modified and some claim that they can't get them to work at all (feed reliably and drop free). I talked with Bobby at FGW about this one time and he told me that he could not guarantee me that new SV mags (tuned by his shop) would work for my STI unless they had the gun and mags at the same time to do the work. I have purchased at least 15 old style SV mags/tubes and everyone one of them work in all my STI guns - some tuned but most have not been tuned. BTW - FGW no longer works on mags alone, will only do this with a gun purchase.

Solid choices are STI mags - tuned or not (preferably tuned) or old style SV mags. If want to work with the new SV mags, be prepared to send your gun along with the mags to someone to work on them.

[Ofishl1]

I shoot 9 Major exclusively.

My STI magazines were purchased as a tuned set from Brazos. They did not recommend them for 9mm (actually they were not recommended for anything loaded shorter than 1.200") but since I load long (1.195")I thought I'd give them a try. As long as I keep the springs in good order, they work excellent.

In my SVI magazines, several of the 140's were tuned and several were not. All run excellent. Of my 170's, one was tuned by Howard Smith and one was modified and semi-tuned by Freedom Gunworks. The FGW tuned magazine is one of the new style SVI magazines. Both run excellent and drop freely from my plastic gripped STI.

Back when I ran a Paraordinance Open gun, magazine problems were a common plight. When I moved to an STI, I decided that if something went wrong, it would not be the magazine.

So I decided to go with the best I could acquire and not look back. No regrets.

Bill

So, I gather either STI or even the new style SV would be solid choices, some mention of older SV tubes running good in STI frames, how would you identify those?

Thanks O1

No, the new SV tubes will only work in STI guns if they have been modified and some claim that they can't get them to work at all (feed reliably and drop free). I talked with Bobby at FGW about this one time and he told me that he could not guarantee me that new SV mags (tuned by his shop) would work for my STI unless they had the gun and mags at the same time to do the work. I have purchased at least 15 old style SV mags/tubes and everyone one of them work in all my STI guns - some tuned but most have not been tuned. BTW - FGW no longer works on mags alone, will only do this with a gun purchase.

Solid choices are STI mags - tuned or not (preferably tuned) or old style SV mags. If want to work with the new SV mags, be prepared to send your gun along with the mags to someone to work on them.

I think going with the STI mags is the safer bet for a first Open gun, one of the members in this thread offered some std and tuned STI mags for a fair price, when they come in I will try them and see what, if anything has to be done. STI, and Rob here at Ghost products helped me set up the Limited STI's and they work good, so I have some back up support here in Az if needed. So, I have 3 140's and 1 -170 coming, it was mentioned to have 2 big sticks, most of the guys I see at our club always carry one, but dont think I have seen 2 on their belts, ..is 2 common?

Thx O1,

Edited by Ofishl1, 23 February 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[latech15]

You asked, I'll offer my opinion.....

Tuned mags are the biggest black magic voodoo trick out there. There are specs within which mags will work. The Dawson mag tuning kit gives you all of those dimensions and the tools to get your mags there and to maintain them. Paying 150-300 more than the cost of the mags for "tuning" when the tuning kit costs 100 is crazy. If you drop your mags, step on them, or just shoot them a lot, they will get out of spec. You need to be able to maintain them yourself.

Buy stock mags and a tuning kit from shooters connection.

Teach the man to fish........

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: You can't use the Grams 11mm base pad with the 140mm STI mags unless you extend the ribs down further. The Grams 11mm will put you over the gauge length but the 2.5mm will work everytime. The 4mm will work with some tuning. Thanks, Eric

[blaster113]

I took a different route with STI mags for my STI Open squirt gun; got a Brazos tuned big stick which I only use for majors (cant use the big stick in Hawaii anyway, 10 rnd state) and regular untuned STI 140's with Grams guts and Dawson SNL basepads. My untuned 140's have never failed me so far. I start off with the big stick for the majority of the stages unless the course is a short burner. One of these days I'll buy the Dawson tuning kit.

[gng4life]

I shoot 9 Major exclusively.

My STI magazines were purchased as a tuned set from Brazos. They did not recommend them for 9mm (actually they were not recommended for anything loaded shorter than 1.200") but since I load long (1.195")I thought I'd give them a try. As long as I keep the springs in good order, they work excellent.

In my SVI magazines, several of the 140's were tuned and several were not. All run excellent. Of my 170's, one was tuned by Howard Smith and one was modified and semi-tuned by Freedom Gunworks. The FGW tuned magazine is one of the new style SVI magazines. Both run excellent and drop freely from my plastic gripped STI.

Back when I ran a Paraordinance Open gun, magazine problems were a common plight. When I moved to an STI, I decided that if something went wrong, it would not be the magazine.

So I decided to go with the best I could acquire and not look back. No regrets.

Bill

So, I gather either STI or even the new style SV would be solid choices, some mention of older SV tubes running good in STI frames, how would you identify those?

Thanks O1

No, the new SV tubes will only work in STI guns if they have been modified and some claim that they can't get them to work at all (feed reliably and drop free). I talked with Bobby at FGW about this one time and he told me that he could not guarantee me that new SV mags (tuned by his shop) would work for my STI unless they had the gun and mags at the same time to do the work. I have purchased at least 15 old style SV mags/tubes and everyone one of them work in all my STI guns - some tuned but most have not been tuned. BTW - FGW no longer works on mags alone, will only do this with a gun purchase.

Solid choices are STI mags - tuned or not (preferably tuned) or old style SV mags. If want to work with the new SV mags, be prepared to send your gun along with the mags to someone to work on them.

I think going with the STI mags is the safer bet for a first Open gun, one of the members in this thread offered some std and tuned STI mags for a fair price, when they come in I will try them and see what, if anything has to be done. STI, and Rob here at Ghost products helped me set up the Limited STI's and they work good, so I have some back up support here in Az if needed. So, I have 3 140's and 1 -170 coming, it was mentioned to have 2 big sticks, most of the guys I see at our club always carry one, but dont think I have seen 2 on their belts, ..is 2 common?

Thx O1,

Good choice. You should be okay but if you have feeding problems, you know where to look. Yes, on some stages, I carry 2 big sticks.

[hax]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have wondered this too. Why do people only carry X amount of big sticks? Why don't people have all their mags big sticks?

Thank you

Edited by hax, 24 February 2012 - 12:10 AM.

[al503]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have wondered this too. Why do people only carry X amount of big sticks? Why don't people have all their mags big sticks?

Thank you

My reasons:
1: I'm faster at reloading a 140mm mag v. a 170.
2: there are very few courses of fire that would require more than 1 big stick unless it's steel heavy and you're not calling your shots.

[OperationHitFactor]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have wondered this too. Why do people only carry X amount of big sticks? Why don't people have all their mags big sticks?

Thank you

A few different reasons, which are mostly personal preference but... For starters, big sticks are more expensive. Two, 140mm mags are easier to handle. Three, it's easier to over insert a 170 and break your ejector. That being said, I know people who only use big sticks. Personally, I have two big sticks and four 140mm mags that I rotate in and out, but I'm still new so I might be wrong. I just don't like changing to a big stick unless it really calls for it.

[gng4life]

On most stages, I start with a big stick unless the mag change is awkward and I need to reload with a big stick. Since at local matches, most of the stages are no more than 24-28 rounds, sometimes I go the whole match without a mag change (unless it's in the classifier). If it's one of those classifier stages that require a mag change on each string, I'm usually using all 140's at that time. Then there are those odd matches that throw in 2 or 3 28-32 round stages (mostly with steel) that make all the Open shooters change too.

[mildot1]

Hypothetical: 28 round course, start with 170(31rnds in gun)no planned reload. If there were to be any kind of problem that would require dumping the mag I could reload another 170 with 29 and finish the course as planned. If I had the malf early in the stage and reloaded with a 140 I could be forced to do another unplanned reload to finish the stage. Yes there are usually places to reload effectively but I don't want to have to think about finding one.

FWIW