103 replies to this topic

[BlueOvalBruin]

What are other people doing?

CrossFit

+1

[Bill Nesbitt]

What are other people doing?

Other people are doing a heck of a lot less than you.

[lawboy]

What are other people doing?

Other people are doing a heck of a lot less than you.

Haha. Touche.

[ZoomZoom]

65+ miles on the bike today.....usually between 14-20 hours a week riding depending on what part of the training program I'm on.

[West Texas Granny]

Nothing is better than practicing under the same conditions that the match is conducted in. If its below freezing then get to the range and practice when it's bone cold. Same for hot and dry. Rain. Snow. Whatever.

[BoldasLions]

I highly recommend Hot Yoga. It's a great place to meet women and it'll truly take your fitness/health to a whole new level. Plus, it's great for someone who has a lot of injuries.

[Overwatcher]

Agreed 150% with everything said here..
My mind seems to operate a hell of a lot better then it did at the end of a long match before i really starting working out.
It felt like I was a completly different person at my first 3 gun match this year.
Almost no practice other then dry fire..
2 months of solid circuit training..
Finished 2nd in my division..
4th overall with 60 some odd shooters/divisions.
No misses,no penalties,no n/s...
I'm a believer in physical conditioning has a lot to do with it!
Those really wanting to up their game,try the workout called insanity!
Love it!

[THM7]

I think John Daly had a better golf game when he was whiskey swilling and grossly overweight. Might be worth a try:)

[buckaroo45]

Shooting is a hobby for me, not a lifestyle. I have a shape. My shape is round. I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to give up burbon and barbecue.

[redbird1976]

Ok, so I'm about ten pounds heavier than I was at the last year's nationals. We had the first hot match today in south Mississippi. I noticed that I was having a more difficult time physically because of the heat. The extra weight is definitely making more difficult to maintain the proper level of focus and execution. So I say get in shape as soon as possible. My goal is to be a lean 265 by this years nationals.

Edited by redbird1976, 01 April 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[spanky]

Weight loss for me has made a substantial improvement on my shooting, physically and mentally.

[BillD]

But you have to ask yourself how much better would he be if he lost 50-60lbs?

OK, how much better would he be? Would he be winning Championships by 20% over the next competitor?

I'm not buying it. Leatham won Championships or was in the top 3 and he had two knees that were worthless and was over 50 years old.

If you are saying Taran would be exponetially better by losing 50-60 lbs, I'm thinking:

He can shoot and MOVE well enough to win now. If he lost 60 lbs would he he be so much better that he would win every major he entered? I don't think so. We have extremely fit men shooting and they aren't beating Taran, so it can't matter that much at his level or he wouldn't be doing as well as he does and the super fit guys would be kicking the older, slower, fatter guys big butts.

He trounces a bunch of washboard stomachs.

I'm not saying being fit isn't a worthwhile goal and I'm sure it will help with focus on long, hot matches. Just don't expect you getting fit to mean you are going to skyrocket to the top of the match scores.

ETA: 25 years ago, I was competing in triathlons, up to half Ironman in length. I know what type of commitment it takes to be in top shape.

Edited by BillD, 04 April 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Shawneeboy87]

Without a doubt.

I've started eating healthier and exercising more and it definitely makes a difference on match day. I run 2-3 miles every other day and try to limit my calorie intake. No weightlifting yet -- rather use that money on ammo

I've found that I move a lot smoother on stages and at practice and I don't find myself out of breath on longer stages. Breathin heavy makes it just that much harder to line up those sights.

[XRe]

I'm not buying it. Leatham won Championships or was in the top 3 and he had two knees that were worthless and was over 50 years old.

If you are saying Taran would be exponetially better by losing 50-60 lbs, I'm thinking:

Who said anything about "exponentially better"? It's easy to argue against something when you make up the other side's position in your head

Go back up and read this post: http://www.brianenos...dpost&p=1628486

He can shoot and MOVE well enough to win now. If he lost 60 lbs would he he be so much better that he would win every major he entered? I don't think so. We have extremely fit men shooting and they aren't beating Taran, so it can't matter that much at his level or he wouldn't be doing as well as he does and the super fit guys would be kicking the older, slower, fatter guys big butts.

He trounces a bunch of washboard stomachs.

The point that I've made all along is that physical fitness by itself does not win matches. You still have to shoot the points and do it efficiently. A shooter's ability to win in this game is an amalgam of a number of skill/ability sets - physical fitness level is only one of those. If the shooting ability is lacking, a shooter with superior fitness might do better than they would without that level of capacity, but they still won't win. However, some shooters have such an exceptional level of shooting skill that they win in spite of lacking physical ability. You improve their physical fitness, and yes, they will be in a position to win more matches - assuming that they don't make errors in the match, etc.

The "washboard stomachs" that he's beating? Lower shooting skill levels? Errors made during the match? Etc? There are a lot of factors, obviously

I'm not saying being fit isn't a worthwhile goal and I'm sure it will help with focus on long, hot matches. Just don't expect you getting fit to mean you are going to skyrocket to the top of the match scores.

Certainly I haven't said that - if others have, I'd disagree with them. It will definitely help you stay upright and focused in a long weekend on the range. And, the physical parts of the stage will be easier for you. You still have to know how to shoot - and in the end, superior shooting skill wins this game (make no mistake about that).

[XRe]

One additional thought... As an instructor, I've found that the fitter the student I'm teaching, the more easily they seem to pick up the physical skills (movement skills, and the like). If you involve yourself in a physical fitness program that stresses balance, coordination, proprioception, and explosive speed, you will be improving your ability to learn the sport specific skills that we use in the game....

[BillD]

It's easy to argue against something when you make up the other side's position in your head

And it's easy to argue for a very fit shooter, when you are a very fit shooter and invest a lot of time, effort and pride into being fit.

We all gravitate towards the side we like or believe, even unconsciously.

Quantify Taran for a moment. He's 50# overweight and is obviously practicing 8 oz curls a lot.

And he's mostly in the top at matches. What it sounds like to me is that ya'll are saying if Taran lost 50# and got into top shape, no one would beat him, ever. You don't really believe that do you?

Is Taran just that much better of a shooter than Horner, Voight, Thacker, Piatt, etc. that if he got into and out of positions as fast as these guys, they'd never beat him?


Miculek is 57 years old. He really doesn't have explosive speed.
Leatham won a lot of matches without explosive speed, or much speed at all.

I wonder if time spent in the gym would be better spent on the range.

Just a different viewpoint, from an old, fat, slow guy.

[XRe]

It's easy to argue against something when you make up the other side's position in your head

And it's easy to argue for a very fit shooter, when you are a very fit shooter and invest a lot of time, effort and pride into being fit.

We all gravitate towards the side we like or believe, even unconsciously.

You forget that I did it the other way for a long, long time. I speak about the benefits of fitness to our game from personal experience playing as an unfit, fat-ish guy for a very long time. And, I don't think those benefits are "in my head", or that I tout them because I happen to be more fit than I was in 2007. There's enough other folks out there speaking the same message that you'd think this would be fairly apparent by now, but... I guess not Ask spanky if he thinks losing 120+ pounds has made any difference in his scores and his ability to employ his gun handling skills.

Quantify Taran for a moment. He's 50# overweight and is obviously practicing 8 oz curls a lot.

And he's mostly in the top at matches. What it sounds like to me is that ya'll are saying if Taran lost 50# and got into top shape, no one would beat him, ever. You don't really believe that do you?

I specifically said that was not the case in my last post (and, again, see the first sentence of my previous post, which you quoted above ). I believe that he'd win more matches than he already does. The shooting is the most important thing - and a failure to execute on those skills will cost you matches (one mike, or one no-shoot, or poor points on a stage, or whatever). Fitness will do a lot of things for you - improve foot speed, improve stability in odd positions, improve recoil management, improve your ability to focus during long days on the range (especially in bad weather). It will not, and cannot, pull the trigger for you. However, it will put you in a better position physically and mentally to execute those skills across a full match.

Is Taran just that much better of a shooter than Horner, Voight, Thacker, Piatt, etc. that if he got into and out of positions as fast as these guys, they'd never beat him?

It isn't just about speed into and out of positions - I've written a lot on my blog about the empirical benefits of fitness for our game, if you're interested in learning about them (I've touched on a few of them above). And, again, you're putting words in my mouth ("never beat him" - never said or even implied that).

Miculek is 57 years old. He really doesn't have explosive speed.

If you notice, Jerry's actually in pretty good shape - and he moves pretty damn quickly.

Leatham won a lot of matches without explosive speed, or much speed at all.

And there are reasons why Robbie doesn't win in situations where those things are important (and, they aren't as important in every match situation).

I wonder if time spent in the gym would be better spent on the range.

Given that I spend less than 3 hours a week in the gym, and the benefits that I've seen from doing it - both in my shooting, and in my overall health - without a doubt, yes, the time in the gym is worth it. If you have to spend 2-3 hours in the gym each time you go, you need to figure out a better way to work out. It's a small investment with a high degree of benefit.

Just a different viewpoint, from an old, fat, slow guy.

Sounds to me like you're just coming up with reasons to justify staying that way Unless, of course, you have Robbie or Taran's natural shooting abilities.... (seriously - no offense intended). Age can't so much be helped (though it's effects can be somewhat mitigated. Fat and slow can be fixed, if you want

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

He can shoot and MOVE well enough to win now. If he lost 60 lbs would he he be so much better that he would win every major he entered? I don't think so. We have extremely fit men shooting and they aren't beating Taran, so it can't matter that much at his level or he wouldn't be doing as well as he does and the super fit guys would be kicking the older, slower, fatter guys big butts.

Taran Butler seems fairly fit but fairly overweight as well. How would an extremely fit young Marine or Ranger perform with 60 extra pounds of kit versus a competitor's typical low-drag kit?

Dropping weight likely won't improve a shooter's splits and transitions, and adding some weight won't hurt them, either. On the other hand, dropping some weight likely will improve a shooter's movement, and adding weight can do tremendous harm. We all know shooters who have trouble maneuvering through a course of fire.

So, on some stages weight plays little role, and in others it plays a big role. Someone like Taran could likely shave a few tenths off many stages by truly getting in shape, but his skill advantage typically more than overcomes that.

[spanky]

Put a 300lb guy with competitive GM level shooting abilities into 30 different stages and, course design taken into account, there WILL be stages where his times are slower than if he were 200 pounds. i don't care who you are, you can't argue with physics. course design dependent, it simply takes more work to move a mass that is heavier, more work to keep it moving and more work to stop it from moving.

eta: and Dave is right. It's easier to do EVERYTHING related to shooting ~130bs lighter.

Edited by spanky, 04 April 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[lawboy]

So this week I have added another routine to my workout.
We have an 11-story parking garage where I work.
I am sprinting the ramps. I sprint up one ramp, rest for 10 breaths at the corner, then sprint up the next. I do this all the way to the top. I take the stairs back down. The ramps are about 40 yards long I am guessing. I am going to pace them today. So that is 400+ yards of sprinting. I did two sets yesterday and will try it again today. The challenge is primarily mental. It is hard not to pace yourself and just go all out on each sprint because you know you have to do it a bunch more times, lol.

Edited: Okay, I paced off the ramp. It is 80yrds, the part that I run. So 80x10 is 800 yards of sprinting. It is a tough workout. Today I finished up by jogging it to warm down.

Edited by lawboy, 05 April 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Corey]

When two shooters of EQUAL shooting ability are side by side, the fitter of the two will almost always win. Yes, you can be slower and carry some extra weight around the middle and still stomp everyone at a match. Its been done before and will be done again. But you gotta have excellent shooting skills to make up for the slower footwork. But all other things being equal, yes, being in better physical shape will help you with your shooting. I'm about 35lbs lighter than I was last year, and am looking forward to seeing how it improves my game this year.

[mackey]

being fit can only improve your game. being unfit can do the opposite or you have to be just that more talented

so unless you have that kind of talent, better start that workout regiment

i know of a top motorcycle racer who took some flak for talking about his fitness vs his competitors and his point wasnt that they werent fit or otherwise, it was that they werent going to beat him because of his fitness level. it would be from their skill, equipment or other factors but fitness wouldnt be one of them

Edited by mackey, 07 April 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[Kyle O]

What are other people doing?

50 yard sprints with all of my 3gun gear on, carrying my rifle, stopping at a shooting box, and putting 2 in the A-zone at 50yds, walk back and repeat until p-mag is empty.

This is one of my favorites!

[ZoomZoom]

I always thought a great stage would be a 1 mile run followed by engaging a single target from behind cover. The idea wasn't popular with many other shooters.

[lawboy]

I always thought a great stage would be a 1 mile run followed by engaging a single target from behind cover. The idea wasn't popular with many other shooters.

That would be a great stage. It would be better if you have like 3 targets and two poppers though. Give them the usual 8-round array, lol.