24 replies to this topic

[FDVi]

Hello everyone,

I am writing on behalf of a friend who does not speak English but is a very much into guns of all sorts. I apologise for any mistakes or inconistencies who are entirely mine as I am not an arms expert but merely serve as translator.

My friend is planning to buy a Meopta ZD 1-4x22 kdot. I have found some useful information in this forum posted on June 8th, 2011 (I seem to be unable to insert the link to the page - the title is "New Meopta ZD1-24 now available by Nick Weidhaas). However, my friend would like some additional information about the chevrons and how they are set.

Fullauto Shooter (poster of above link) lists the drops assigned to the chevrons. My friend would like to know, whether there is any information available concerning the bullet weight (grains) used and how the bullet weight influences the trajectory.
He is planning to buy the scope for his M4 Carabiner SS109 556 x 45 mm.

Thank you for your help.

[A38337]

Hello FDVi,

There was recently another thread on the ZD that stating the 1st arrow is 4.58 moa low, the second is 7.98 moa, and the 3rd is 12.11 moa. This is, I believe, from the center of the dot. The dot is 2 moa diameter. The arrows are 1.9 moa tall. The horizontal lines are 9 moa wide (if they are the same as the K-dot reticle). The gaps on the right and left of the dot are 2 moa wide.

The instructions that came with my ZD provide the below values for the dot and arrrows, when used on 4x


5.56Nato 7.62x39 186-223 Rem
Dot 100m 100m 100m
1st arrow 300m 220m 300m
2d arrow 400m 290m 370m
3rd arrow 500m 360m 480m

I am not sure what their underlying data was, but my KAC ballistic software tells me that the M855 cartridge (62 grn bullet with a BC of .151) when fired out of a 14.5" barrel will be travelling 2900 fps (883.9 mps) at the muzzle.

This is with standard atmoshperic conditions of 59 degrees F, barometric pressure of 29.92 In/HG, at sea level.

Your friend should obtain and read up on ballistics, specifically, "external ballistics". There is much more to it that I can explain here or that I even know (I am just a layman).

The Sierra Bullets loading manual (for rifle) has some info on external ballistics, and there are no doublt all kinds of resources on the internet for learning about this.

Same thing for ballistics software. The Strelok app for iphone and android has the ZD reticle in it, and makes this very easy (I just started using it and have yet to confirm how good it works in reality).

Knowing the velocity and BC of the bullet is important as knowing the weight.

And of course, you'll want to confirm your projections by actually shooting.

Hope that helps.

Edited by A38337, 10 January 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[FDVi]

A38337, thank you very much for your comprehensive answer. I relayed it to my friend and he says that your info was what he was looking for.

Fabio, my friend, plans to use the scope for IPSC rifle shooting competitions. He wonders whether there are scopes that support the distances shot in those competitions more. He is looking for maximum distances of

dot = 100 m
1st chevron = max 200 m
2nd chevron = max 300 m
3rd chevron = max. 400 m

Would anyone know of a scope that would fulfil these requirements with the same reticle and for 556 Nato?

[A38337]

Tell him to take a look (here in these forums and elsewhere on the 'net) at the Burris Tac 30 and the Burris MTAC. They are 1x - 4x optics with BDCs applicable to his goal.

The Leupold CQ/T with the CMR-2 reticle and the Leupold MR/T with the CMR-2 reticle might also work. However, the former is 1-3x and the latter is 1.5 - 5x (or more accurately, 1.5 - 4.5x).

Just remember that the marks in any BDC need to be confirmed by shooting the optic at those distances with your rifle and ammo. BDCs can often be off a little, or a lot. You have to test it to find out for yourself.

[smokshwn]

If your friend will zero the Meopta at 200yds at the top of the center dot then the holds with the reticle will be very close to the following with most any standard 223 load.

100 yds 1.5inches high
200 yds zeroed at top of dot
300 yds bottom of the dot
400 yds tip of the first chevron
500 yds tip of the second chevron
600 yds tip of the third chevron.

With respect to finding the exact scope to fit the exact load....it's impossible. There are many BDC reticles out there and they all require some compromise based on the particular rifles muzzle velocity.

IMO the meopta is one of the easiest to live with.

Edited by smokshwn, 11 January 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[jdphotoguy]

Anyone have a good source for purchasing a Meopta ZD at a decent price??

[Outsydlooknin75]

Anyone have a good source for purchasing a Meopta ZD at a decent price??

Try Jay at sportoptics

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

[A38337]

Bought mine from Sportoptics.com

[jdphotoguy]

Just bought one from Sport Optics for $849 and free shipping. It will be mounted on a Stag Arms 3G via a LaRue Tactical SPR LT104 VFZ.

I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas to come.

[FDVi]

Tell him to take a look (here in these forums and elsewhere on the 'net) at the Burris Tac 30 and the Burris MTAC. They are 1x - 4x optics with BDCs applicable to his goal.

The Leupold CQ/T with the CMR-2 reticle and the Leupold MR/T with the CMR-2 reticle might also work. However, the former is 1-3x and the latter is 1.5 - 5x (or more accurately, 1.5 - 4.5x).

Just remember that the marks in any BDC need to be confirmed by shooting the optic at those distances with your rifle and ammo. BDCs can often be off a little, or a lot. You have to test it to find out for yourself.

Excellent, he is off researching.
Maybe you are interested to know that the Leopold CQ is on the list of sensitive items and can not be bought by and shipped to residents outside the States. Thanks to all for your help.

[jimmcc]

If your friend will zero the Meopta at 200yds at the top of the center dot then the holds with the reticle will be very close to the following with most any standard 223 load.

100 yds 1.5inches high
200 yds zeroed at top of dot
300 yds bottom of the dot
400 yds tip of the first chevron
500 yds tip of the second chevron
600 yds tip of the third chevron.

With respect to finding the exact scope to fit the exact load....it's impossible. There are many BDC reticles out there and they all require some compromise based on the particular rifles muzzle velocity.

IMO the meopta is one of the easiest to live with.

This is good info. I wonder if the third chevron would be close for using on REAL close targets where you have to hold over because of the relationship between the bore and the optic?

[jimmcc]

I checked sportoptics and saw the ZD "on sale" for $999. Do you have to call for the $850 price? Or did I screw something up?

[SteveT-NV]

If your friend will zero the Meopta at 200yds at the top of the center dot then the holds with the reticle will be very close to the following with most any standard 223 load.

100 yds 1.5inches high
200 yds zeroed at top of dot
300 yds bottom of the dot
400 yds tip of the first chevron
500 yds tip of the second chevron
600 yds tip of the third chevron.

With respect to finding the exact scope to fit the exact load....it's impossible. There are many BDC reticles out there and they all require some compromise based on the particular rifles muzzle velocity.

IMO the meopta is one of the easiest to live with.

This is good info. I wonder if the third chevron would be close for using on REAL close targets where you have to hold over because of the relationship between the bore and the optic?

With a 250 yd zero - as noted above - 25 yds is between the bottom of the dot and the first chevron (-3MOA). For all practical purposes you can use the top of the first chevron, keeping in mind you might need to aim a hair low. This works well at 1x and 4x (though it's unlikely you would use 4x on a COF for that close of target.)

Photo below is from the Strelok Ballistic Calculator (Android Market) with a 250 yd zero. Showing a 25 yd POA/POI. The numbers on the screenshot are not visible on the actual reticle, only on the Strelok program.

Ballistic Data:
MV - 2905 fps
Bullet - 55 grain
BC - 0.269
Altitude - 5600 ft
Temp 67 F
BP - 30 inHg
Zeroed at 250 yds

 meopta.jpg   33.62K   121 downloads

Edited by SteveT-NV, 06 February 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[jimmcc]

If your friend will zero the Meopta at 200yds at the top of the center dot then the holds with the reticle will be very close to the following with most any standard 223 load.

100 yds 1.5inches high
200 yds zeroed at top of dot
300 yds bottom of the dot
400 yds tip of the first chevron
500 yds tip of the second chevron
600 yds tip of the third chevron.

With respect to finding the exact scope to fit the exact load....it's impossible. There are many BDC reticles out there and they all require some compromise based on the particular rifles muzzle velocity.

IMO the meopta is one of the easiest to live with.

This is good info. I wonder if the third chevron would be close for using on REAL close targets where you have to hold over because of the relationship between the bore and the optic?

With a 250 yd zero - as noted above - 25 yds is between the bottom of the dot and the first chevron (-3MOA). For all practical purposes you can use the top of the first chevron, keeping in mind you might need to aim a hair low. This works well at 1x and 4x (though it's unlikely you would use 4x on a COF for that close of target.)

Photo below is from the Strelok Ballistic Calculator (Android Market) with a 250 yd zero. Showing a 25 yd POA/POI. The numbers on the screenshot are not visible on the actual reticle, only on the Strelok program.


 meopta.jpg   33.62K   121 downloads

I think even I can figure that out. It's decided, I need one. I've been looking for 6 months at all the 3gun scopes and narrowed it down to Meopta or a Pibull and I'm going with a ZD. Now if I can only find one for $850.

[smokshwn]

I don't know what ballistic information was used in the previous pic (bullet, velocity, etc) but here is another pic of the reticle zeroed at 200yds on the top of the center dot.

The ballistic info for the round is a 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with a muzzle velocity of 3100fps

The yellow highlighted bullseye shows POI for 300yds.

Changing the round to a 68 gr Hornady BTHP at 2850 only changes the bottom most chevron to 593 yds instead of 609. The other holdovers remain the same.

Attached Files

•  Meopta NosBT @3100.jpg   33.37K   78 downloads

Edited by smokshwn, 06 February 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[SteveT-NV]

I don't know what ballistic information was used in the previous pic (bullet, velocity, etc) but here is another pic of the reticle zeroed at 200yds on the top of the center dot.

The ballistic info for the round is a 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with a muzzle velocity of 3100fps

The yellow highlighted bullseye shows POI for 300yds.

Changing the round to a 68 gr Hornady BTHP at 2850 only changes the bottom most chevron to 593 yds instead of 609. The other holdovers remain the same.

Sorry,
I updated my post above for the Ballistic data. I may be doing something wrong, but I'm getting different values than you are for a 68 gr bullet at a MV of 2850 fps. 1st Chev - 375, 2nd - 453, 3rd - 539 - See below. What BC are you using for the 68 Gr Horn? Are you sure you changed the MV for the heavier bullet?

Attached Files

•  meopta68.jpg   33.55K   42 downloads

Edited by SteveT-NV, 06 February 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[jimmcc]

Ok, Sports optic and Euro optic are both $999. Optic Planet is suggesting to pick a Japanese or German manufacture over Meopta? I want to buy a ZD tonight but would love to save some money and find it for $850. Any suggestions?

[Ninja Moose]

CSTactical has it for $950

[jimmcc]

Just bought one from LaRue with a 104 mount. Saved $50 by buying the combo.

[Recoil45]

Was that $850 a typo or is it actually possible to get it at this price?

[jimmcc]

Was that $850 a typo or is it actually possible to get it at this price?

I got tired of waiting for an answer. Of course I guess I took six months to figure out which scope I wanted in the first place!

[dchang0]

It seems there was a recent price increase across the board, as nearly all dealers are reporting $949 or $999 now. I think it was triggered by SHOT 2012--see below.

Too bad--they lost my business when they did that. I'll wait until the Leupold Mark 6 1-6X now, even though it's expected to be $1600-$1800.

I'd recommend against Optics Planet. They did a bitch move on me recently. Last year, I ordered an S&B Short Dot Gen 2. It had to be backordered. After SHOT Show 2012 passed, S&B apparently pulled a price increase on them. Optics Planet canceled my order, claiming it was a "typographical error." BULLS--T. It was because they didn't have the scope in stock, waited too long on backorder, got caught by a price increase, and needed a way to weasel out of the deal. Needless to say, I won't be buying from Optics Planet again. Because I was waiting for my order and not checking various forums, I missed out on three used Short Dots that sold during my four-month wait.

Edited by dchang0, 13 February 2012 - 01:21 AM.

[opticspecialist]

if you call in you can get a better deal for the most part :-)

[Recoil45]

if you call in you can get a better deal for the most part :-)

This guy knows his stuff.

[co-exprs]

I got mine from Euro last fall. Called and told them I was gonna buy one of the scopes they had listed on Ebay for $950. They offered to sell me one for $900 with free shipping, which I accepted right then. I love my Meopta. Great scope. You can always find other scopes which beat it in some specific way or another. As a complete package though, it's tough to beat. The thing just plain works for most 3gun shooting needs. I zero mine at 400 with the 1st chevron. At least in my area, 350-450yds tends to be the most difficult shot. We shoot further, but at 400 the targets are usually still minute man swingers in the 12" or so range. Sometimes an ABC at 450. At 500 the targets tend to get big again. So I zero my 1st chevron at 400 and take the rest where they lie. My match load is 69gr SMK at 2800fps. This gives me nearly perfect 500 and 600 chevs and the center of the dot at about 240yds. Top of the dot for 100 and 200. Bottom of the dot for 300. Crossover is close enough to 50yds for practical purposes and 25yds is the 1st chev (although I've never had a 25yd target which required that level of precision). Advantage is my scope is zeroed for my most likely hardest targets. The compounding error is split in half and the greatest variance happens on close (large) targets rather than on far (small) targets. Rather than the trajectory being off several inches at 600yds, its only off <.5" up close. The drawback is that it can be difficult to get to the range on a calm enough day to zero at 400. Also, not all matches have sight in out to 400. Many give you a 100 or 200yd range. If atmo changes severely you have to have an alternate sight in plan. Overall though, I think it works well.

Oh and one more thing. I have about 12hrs on the original battery now with no discernable reduction in reticle brightness.

Edited by co-exprs, 21 February 2012 - 03:43 PM.