21 replies to this topic

[GorillaTactical]

So I'm a more unique case than most when it comes to multigun...I never shot any sort of pistol matches (or any matches for that matter) prior to taking up 3 gun....my long gun skills have developed nicely and I typically find myself close to the top of the leader board (within 10-15% of top shooter at the large matches) on long gun stages (specifically when it comes to speed shoots with the rifle)....IE, I'm happy with where I'm at on those systems. However, (I assume based on the fact that I picked up pistol for the first time simply so that I could compete in multigun), my pistol skills are still weak...I'm a low A class shooter on my best days, and that doesn't seem to cut it against the big dogs who typically will beat me by 25% on most pistol stages. I really want to improve that aspect of my game, but as we all know, training time is limited...and I know that if I practice on pistol, I won't devote the same amount of time as usual to keeping sharp on the long guns. I also know that in 3 gun, pistol is not typically weighted the same as rifle and shotgun, in that it usually isn't worth as much...........so, do I take the time to improve the pistol?

I'm sure there will be plenty of answers that go along the lines of "well just practice both" or "practice enough rifle/shotgun to keep sharp" etc etc....point of this being, with time so limited, I'm assuming that I legit won't be able to do it all and achieve my goal...if I'm going to improve pistol, it's going to have to be a full force 100% effort.

Thanks for the responses guys.

Edited by GorillaTactical, 13 December 2011 - 03:42 AM.

[bigbrowndog]

Josh, practice what you are worst at the most, then keep your skill current with the others.

in other words, if you go practice 200 rds with each every time, practice 100 rds with what you are strongest at and give the extra rounds to what you are worst at.

Trapr

[mike cyrwus]

I wouldnt call low A class weak. Its not top 10 three gunner pistol-strong, but it aint bad.

The pistol shots are getting longer and tighter in 3gun. Its all about making good shots the first time.
A B class shooter who doesnt miss in three gun wont loose a thing to a typical hoser M class type guy.

[GorillaTactical]

I wouldnt call low A class weak. Its not top 10 three gunner pistol-strong, but it aint bad.

The pistol shots are getting longer and tighter in 3gun. Its all about making good shots the first time.
A B class shooter who doesnt miss in three gun wont loose a thing to a typical hoser M class type guy.

On my best days I hit A, didn't mean to sound pretentious in any way here. But your point is well taken Mike

And thanks Trapr, good advise.

[twodownzero]

You're fine, just keep shooting. Progress will come as long as you keep it up.

School has interfered for me the past few years, but watching videos from 2008 versus today, I am much better. It'll take time, but improvement will come.

[P.E. Kelley]

Pistol skills are the quickest to degrade. That makes sense as mastery of the pistol takes the most effort.

I would follow (and do) Trapr's advise and work the weak areas first and keep the rest tuned.

Patrick

[GorillaTactical]

Pistol skills are the quickest to degrade. That makes sense as mastery of the pistol takes the most effort.

I would follow (and do) Trapr's advise and work the weak areas first and keep the rest tuned.

Patrick

Thanks Patrick, I appreciate the response!

[West Texas Granny]

I don't want to be mean about this but if you want to be at the top in 3 gun or anything else you have to put the work in. Cutting corners is not how you get better than others. If getting to the top of 3 gun is important to you you will find all of the time you need to practice. So the questions to you are.... What do you want? What's your goal? Are you willing to make the scarficies to accomplish that goal. Answers these honestly and you will be on your way. Good luck.

Edited by West Texas Granny, 05 January 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[sparks1]

I, too, have better rifle that pistol skills. I've decided to shoot USPSA and put in the practice to hone my pistol skills. ( will be shooting production) I still intend to do rifle practice also. As far as shotgun goes...not sure. It's not exactly a surgical weapon is it? No offense intended, you sg shooters. Other than reloading drills my practice with it will be less than pistol/rifle.

Edited by sparks1, 05 January 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[landshark45]

Iv found I shoot my best... whatever that means... after iv been doing handgun shoots or practice all month. It seems the handgun techniques bleed over better onto the rifle shooting.

[jwfuhrman]

Any more, matches are won and lost on the shotgun, ie, who can reload the fastest(with a tube gun that is).
Brownells sells some full weight dummy 12ga rounds, I'd pick up some of those and practice your shotgun reloads, then go on to doing it live at the range. Load 4 shoot 4. Best way to do that is to keep 1 in the chamber so you don't run the gun dry, you'll get much more practice in.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Josh, practice what you are worst at the most, then keep your skill current with the others.

in other words, if you go practice 200 rds with each every time, practice 100 rds with what you are strongest at and give the extra rounds to what you are worst at.

Trapr

Ding Ding Ding. I work on the stuff I am worst at the most. Then I reward myself with some 7 yard poppers with the shotgun at the end of the session to make me think I good at something.

I started out shooting USPSA but growing up in the woods I shot a lot of long guns. I was naturally much better with the long guns when I started 3 gun even after a year and a half of USPSA pistol with a B class ranking. In order to get better with the pistol I shot a BUNCH of pistol matches. They not only teach you how to shoot with a pistol they teach you how to shoot on the move, get in and out of positions perfectly and how to get your guns up and on target faster. I also took 2 pistol classes with Phil Strader, one with Mike Seeklander, one with Max Michel, and one with TDSA in Tulsa. Suprisingly enough the most introductory of all of these classes was the AP1 class I took at TDSA last fall right before the ProAm 3 gun match. These guys taught me that I wasn't holding the pistol in the most effective manner. I took all of those upper level competitions courses that never really focused on the down and dirty basics. After the TDSA class I was kinda pissed that I hadn't taken it 2 years prior. The anger went away when I finished 2nd on the all pistol stage at last year's USPSA multi gun nationals.

But who am I to give pistol advice. I am still just a B class pistol guy. L3223

[djeffers]

Josh, practice what you are worst at the most, then keep your skill current with the others.

in other words, if you go practice 200 rds with each every time, practice 100 rds with what you are strongest at and give the extra rounds to what you are worst at.

Trapr

Ding Ding Ding. I work on the stuff I am worst at the most. Then I reward myself with some 7 yard poppers with the shotgun at the end of the session to make me think I good at something.

I started out shooting USPSA but growing up in the woods I shot a lot of long guns. I was naturally much better with the long guns when I started 3 gun even after a year and a half of USPSA pistol with a B class ranking. In order to get better with the pistol I shot a BUNCH of pistol matches. They not only teach you how to shoot with a pistol they teach you how to shoot on the move, get in and out of positions perfectly and how to get your guns up and on target faster. I also took 2 pistol classes with Phil Strader, one with Mike Seeklander, one with Max Michel, and one with TDSA in Tulsa. Suprisingly enough the most introductory of all of these classes was the AP1 class I took at TDSA last fall right before the ProAm 3 gun match. These guys taught me that I wasn't holding the pistol in the most effective manner. I took all of those upper level competitions courses that never really focused on the down and dirty basics. After the TDSA class I was kinda pissed that I hadn't taken it 2 years prior. The anger went away when I finished 2nd on the all pistol stage at last year's USPSA multi gun nationals.

But who am I to give pistol advice. I am still just a B class pistol guy. L3223

Sandbagger!

[Jesse Tischauser]

Josh, practice what you are worst at the most, then keep your skill current with the others.

in other words, if you go practice 200 rds with each every time, practice 100 rds with what you are strongest at and give the extra rounds to what you are worst at.

Trapr

Ding Ding Ding. I work on the stuff I am worst at the most. Then I reward myself with some 7 yard poppers with the shotgun at the end of the session to make me think I good at something.

I started out shooting USPSA but growing up in the woods I shot a lot of long guns. I was naturally much better with the long guns when I started 3 gun even after a year and a half of USPSA pistol with a B class ranking. In order to get better with the pistol I shot a BUNCH of pistol matches. They not only teach you how to shoot with a pistol they teach you how to shoot on the move, get in and out of positions perfectly and how to get your guns up and on target faster. I also took 2 pistol classes with Phil Strader, one with Mike Seeklander, one with Max Michel, and one with TDSA in Tulsa. Suprisingly enough the most introductory of all of these classes was the AP1 class I took at TDSA last fall right before the ProAm 3 gun match. These guys taught me that I wasn't holding the pistol in the most effective manner. I took all of those upper level competitions courses that never really focused on the down and dirty basics. After the TDSA class I was kinda pissed that I hadn't taken it 2 years prior. The anger went away when I finished 2nd on the all pistol stage at last year's USPSA multi gun nationals.

But who am I to give pistol advice. I am still just a B class pistol guy. L3223

Sandbagger!

Thank You! I did make A this Spring but it's still not right.

[co-exprs]

One of the things most developing competitors don't understand, is that learning how to shoot all three guns well, is only half the battle. Most don't realize that most of the precious time is lost between the shooting. This is true in USPSA and is exponetially more impactive in mult gun. USPSA teaches us how to be efficient with our time. How to look into the details for that extra second. You will learn far more from USPSA than just how to shoot the pistol better. Additionally, 100% of what you learn in USPSA will transfer directly over to your other platforms. You will be faster at close rifle and shotgun targets. You will see better ways to break down courses. You will see footwork opportunities you didn't see before. I am very glad to have done several years of USPSA before seriously persuing 3gun. It allowed me to come up to speed on most of the stuff we do, much more quickly than I anticipated. Right off the bat, the two big holes in my performance was long range rifle and shotgun reloading. My shotgun reloading is pretty decent now and I'm getting there on long range (man that's a long journey). Good luck in your trek!

[gdboytyler]

Daniel Horner practices pistol two to three times as much as the other guns:
http://www.danielhorner.com/Tips.html

[djeffers]

Josh, practice what you are worst at the most, then keep your skill current with the others.

in other words, if you go practice 200 rds with each every time, practice 100 rds with what you are strongest at and give the extra rounds to what you are worst at.

Trapr

Ding Ding Ding. I work on the stuff I am worst at the most. Then I reward myself with some 7 yard poppers with the shotgun at the end of the session to make me think I good at something.

I started out shooting USPSA but growing up in the woods I shot a lot of long guns. I was naturally much better with the long guns when I started 3 gun even after a year and a half of USPSA pistol with a B class ranking. In order to get better with the pistol I shot a BUNCH of pistol matches. They not only teach you how to shoot with a pistol they teach you how to shoot on the move, get in and out of positions perfectly and how to get your guns up and on target faster. I also took 2 pistol classes with Phil Strader, one with Mike Seeklander, one with Max Michel, and one with TDSA in Tulsa. Suprisingly enough the most introductory of all of these classes was the AP1 class I took at TDSA last fall right before the ProAm 3 gun match. These guys taught me that I wasn't holding the pistol in the most effective manner. I took all of those upper level competitions courses that never really focused on the down and dirty basics. After the TDSA class I was kinda pissed that I hadn't taken it 2 years prior. The anger went away when I finished 2nd on the all pistol stage at last year's USPSA multi gun nationals.

But who am I to give pistol advice. I am still just a B class pistol guy. L3223

Sandbagger!

Thank You! I did make A this Spring but it's still not right.

Actually, I could probably make B, but for whatever reason my nerves get the best of me. I usually wind up watching a M class before me ...... and it turns out monkey see, but can't do!

[GorillaTactical]

I came back to this old thread to find many more responses than I remembered. So for the sake of an update, let me sort-of describe what I've done to help improve pistol skill while also not allowing other skills to deteriorate

The road that I've taken since originally posing this question has been to take the advice given and begin shooting USPSA (and IDPA when no USPSA is around). I've shot probably an average of 2.5 pistol matches a month, opposed to the 1.5 three gun matches I averaged prior. I didn't shoot any of the 3 Gun Majors this summer (as hard as that was haha) so it's hard to gauge how my performance has increased (in that realm) based on where I started. I do certainly feel far more confident on the gun than before, especially with taking certain tighter shots that otherwise might have intimidated me in the past...I "expect" to score Alpha's now. While I still can't seem to beat a Mid-A classifier time on the majority of classifiers (others which are more standard drills which I have practiced I'm able to hit M based on the calculators) my overall match scores have increased by 10-15% on average from when I stared this training regiment.

I haven't shot a whole lot of rifle or shotgun in this time period, but every so often work dry fire and reloads to be sure to keep the skill present. I know when it comes time I won't be able to pick up the gun and be as fast as before, but in 2-5 range sessions I'm confident I will be.

Despite what one person posted above, I argue that time is indeed finite, as is money...we need to tailor our training regiments according to our skill sets and what we have analyzed needs improvement based on match scores.

Again, thanks for the input and responses....the quest continues!

Edited by GorillaTactical, 10 October 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[waktasz]

My answer is to shoot pistol matches, dryfire reload practice with the shotgun, and live fire long range rifle from odd positions.

I find the shotgun shooting and close rifle shooting to be easy and a waste of ammo to do very much practice with it.

[Alaskapopo]

The winter is a dry spell for me with rifle and shotgun practice to a degree due to the poor weather. I shoot pistol matches in the winter but not a lot of practice either. However in the summer I practie a fair amount with my pistols and rifles and have started working the shotgun into it as well now that I have a fair amount of steel targets.
Pat

[9X23Guy]

You live a mile from the range Popo and every time I call you you're at it. "Fair" amount?

Sandbagger.............

[JKSNIPER]

Gorilla,

Everyone has something that we HATE practicing and its usually 'cos we suck at it. We ALL like to shoot that one ragged hole in the target and pull it down and show it off doing what we're best at. Its just human nature to want to do the things we're good at and avoid doing anything that makes us look bad and just accept that we're going to be bad at those one or two things and expect the crappy scores that come with shooting that particular COF.

Pick that thing you HATE to practice cos its uncomfortable or you don't do it well and practice THAT every day...dry fire even if its only 10 shots a day if you cant get to the range in that position or with that particular weapon.
You WILL see improvement.

JK