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Clays Vs. VV320


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#1 Dan Burwell

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 07:56 PM

OK here is what I am trying to accomplish: I reload .45acp and 9mm mostly for IDPA (no USPSA clubs around :angry: ). I would like to use just one powder and I am cheap. From what I can gather from using the search function the VV320 and the straight Clays are both very clean powders and work well for the 45s, but I have found loads posted for the VV320 9mm with 147gr bullet but I haven't found any for the Clays 9mm 147gr.

I guess what I am asking is does anyone have any load data for the 9mm straight Clays with a 147gr bullet or should I just suck it up and pay more for the VV320? :unsure:

or can anyone convince me to try another powder that would be Clean and usable for both 45(major 165 pf) and 9mm(minor 125 pf) :wacko: .
Thanks,
Dan
ps can we try to keep Universal Clays and Clays "straight" ;)
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#2 smokshwn

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:17 PM

Based on many recomendations from this board I have swithched to Titegroup and am very pleased. I use it for .45 and .40 in both IDPA (125 and 165pf) and USPSA (165pf). I have found it to be able to do all the work I ask of it. It is clean and so far has shown amazing consistency. There is no reason why it shouldn't work equally as well with 9mm. The reason I bring it up is that it seems most everyone has found TG to perform as well or better in the place of VV320 at half the price. Good luck. Craig
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#3 DougCarden

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:21 PM

Per your request, I too load CLAYS for the same reason you listed as well, CLAYS works just fine for what you want. VV310 will also fit the bill, as well as VV320.
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#4 jhgtyre

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 09:34 PM

I use WST for minor 9, major 40 and major 45. So far it has been clean, low flash and low smoke for all three cartridges.

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#5 Flexmoney

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 10:34 PM

TG for 40...and 9mm...and 45 (on the rare occasions that I load 45)
Thank you,

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#6 Skywalker

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 10:43 PM

If you happen to find Nitrokemia Rex powders, both Rex 36 (green can) and Rex 32 (yellow can) are very cheap and effective powders in 9mm and .45.

Although not as clean as VV N320, they are good and cheap powders.

If you wish, I can provide loading data for both powders and calibers.
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#7 SRT Driver

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 07:21 AM

I like N320 for 9mm and 38 Super in minor. Don't load 45 or 147's in 9mmso can't comment. N320 is very mild and consistent in 9mm. 4.1 gr gets 135 pF with 125 JHP's in a G34.

Liked N320 better than TG, although TG is good and cheap.

Works too much..shoots too little.

 


#8 MoNsTeR

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 07:58 AM

N310 is the best for 9mm minor, but given the choice between N320 and Clays I would use N320 hands down. The difference in feel between N310 and N320 is really pretty subtle anyway.
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#9 Dan Burwell

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 08:42 PM

DougC,
Could you share any load data for 147 gr 9mm in CLAYS?
Burwell Gunsmithing- The M&P specialist
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#10 Harmon

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 08:06 PM

clays and a 147 in a 9mm just sound like high chamber pressure.
if you must, and your truly cheap enough not to keep two kinds of powder on hand, use titegroup, it will work in both


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#11 Tree Rat

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 04:17 AM

I tested N310 with 115 Star FMJ's and got presure signs at 3.8 and 123,500 PF. I'm going to carefully try 4.0 but not very comfortable with N310 at this point even with 115's and would really assume big problems with 147's. Had the same experience with Clays and 115's awhile back.

I still think WST is the softest 9mm minor powder but I get irritated with it's high case fill when loading beyond 4.4 grains which spills when the 650 indexes. Also been getting real high SD's partly due to the case fill/spill and suseptability to static.

Titegroup is a great powder....just not the best for competition IMHO. Loud, snappy and EXTRA smokey with lead.

N320 has always been smooth shooting with no issues at the bench and of course always super clean as it is renowned.


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#12 4570

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:37 PM

The reason I bring it up is that it seems most everyone has found TG to perform as well or better in the place of VV320 at half the price.
Sounds great...

Is TG almost as clean as VV 320?

I have heard TG has more, than most powders, velocity changes with temperature changes.
An issue for an Canadian shooter.

#13 bberkley

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 08:40 PM

The reason I bring it up is that it seems most everyone has found TG to perform as well or better in the place of VV320 at half the price.
Sounds great...

Is TG almost as clean as VV 320?

I have heard TG has more, than most powders, velocity changes with temperature changes.
An issue for an Canadian shooter.


I switched from TG to N320 because I found that N320 metered better, and was more consistent.

I also think it makes less smoke.

I used to use 3.3gr TG under a 145gr LRN for 9mm Minor, and on hot/hazy days with no breeze, the smoke was pretty bad.
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#14 ghideon

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 11:01 PM

Clays w/124gr JHPs works for me. 3.6gr Clays, OAL at 1.150. Clocks in around 1020ish with a 5inch barrel, so you're barely making minor at that point. Pretty light (compared to WWB), and very clean. I'm just starting out with my 650, and the powder was given to me. From what I've read here, Clays isn't a good candidate for 9mm, and doubly so for 147gr bullets.

#15 Squishy

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 05:00 AM

Clays . Hands down. Clean. Very little smoke. Meters well. Lot less $ than N320 and you can find it everywhere.
3.1 to 3.3 grs of clays with a 147 jhp Zero 9mm bullet. Soft recoil ,clean, accurate.

#16 jboyd103

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:50 PM

Has anyone here used Natmil NR-485?  They, Natmil, claim that it is the same as titegroup.



#17 ZombieHunter

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:45 PM

Wow resurrected a thread from 2004 that was last replied to in 2008.  Impressive.



#18 gm iprod

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:11 AM

Titegroup made in USA at St Marks Powders in Florida, I suspect it is specific for Hodgdon. NatMil on the other hand buy surplus powders (just how Hodgdon got going) and recannister it. They say it is flake powder, problem right there, TG is a Spherical (Ball) Powder and looks to be somewhat darker than the picture of the NR-485 they show on the website. 

 

http://www.natmil.co...er-8-pound-jug/

 

Elsewhere on the website they specify ballpowder for the 50BMG and 4400 series. I suspect NR-485 is only similar in burnrate and not much else. 


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#19 FWSixgunner

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:23 AM

Wow resurrected a thread from 2004 that was last replied to in 2008.  Impressive.


Leave it to a "ZombieHunter" to notice the topic was risen from the dead:-)

#20 RDA

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:54 AM

 

Wow resurrected a thread from 2004 that was last replied to in 2008.  Impressive.


Leave it to a "ZombieHunter" to notice the topic was risen from the dead:-)

 

 

Very nice, thanks for pointing that out.



#21 gm iprod

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:11 PM

Called NatMil this morning. They have 10K lbs in stock, all same batch. It is definetley Flake, BUT, you use the same load data as TG to get essentially the same velocity. Pressure may differ in certain cartridges. 10lb Jusg is $180 delivered including HAzmat fees, 45lb Drum is about $16 per lb delivered including Hazmat fees. Although they are working on that to see if there are savings to be made. The more you put together in one delivery drop the cheaper the freight gets.


So many guns, so little time.

"For those people who think he's done his time and should be let out, perhaps invite him to their family, their daughters, bounce their kids up and down on his knee and see what they think?"

#22 CeeZer

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:47 PM

Clays w/124gr JHPs works for me. 3.6gr Clays, OAL at 1.150. Clocks in around 1020ish with a 5inch barrel, so you're barely making minor at that point. Pretty light (compared to WWB), and very clean. I'm just starting out with my 650, and the powder was given to me. From what I've read here, Clays isn't a good candidate for 9mm, and doubly so for 147gr bullets.

 

Clays is very good powder for 9mm Minor with 124gr bullets, I'd never tried it with 147gr - may be little too much pressure with those.

 

Try OAL 1.12-1.13", or bump load to 3.7gr - you will def make Minor PF; Clays is all I use for last few years and shot over 40K rounds with Clays.



#23 ZackJones

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:37 AM

Called NatMil this morning. They have 10K lbs in stock, all same batch.


10K of Clays? If so how do you reach these guys? No one seems to have Clays in stock these days.

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#24 gm iprod

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:48 PM

http://www.natmil.co...er-8-pound-jug/

 

It is not clays that I can ascertain. It is flake (like clays) but a little slower burning at best guess. More like Intl Clays maybe??


So many guns, so little time.

"For those people who think he's done his time and should be let out, perhaps invite him to their family, their daughters, bounce their kids up and down on his knee and see what they think?"

#25 shortstop

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 02:06 PM

 

Clays w/124gr JHPs works for me. 3.6gr Clays, OAL at 1.150. Clocks in around 1020ish with a 5inch barrel, so you're barely making minor at that point. Pretty light (compared to WWB), and very clean. I'm just starting out with my 650, and the powder was given to me. From what I've read here, Clays isn't a good candidate for 9mm, and doubly so for 147gr bullets.

 

Clays is very good powder for 9mm Minor with 124gr bullets, I'd never tried it with 147gr - may be little too much pressure with those.

 

Try OAL 1.12-1.13", or bump load to 3.7gr - you will def make Minor PF; Clays is all I use for last few years and shot over 40K rounds with Clays.

 

Hey CeeZer , where can i get clays at a good price in VR ?






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