14 replies to this topic

[JeffWard]

Has anybody done a "double blind" accuracy comparison between a fresh factory M&P/Glock/XD barrel and an aftermarket (Storm Lake, KKM, etc) barrel and seen a REAL accuracy bump?

The barrel companies will of course tell you theirs is better, and the guys who have spent the money will often claim better accuracy, but has anybody done a double-blind test, with multiple shooters, who don't know which barrel is in... and shot 20 rounds at 20 yards for a group?

I'd love to see the results...

JeffWard

[fastarget]

you need once box of quality ammo, gun and two barrels, and a ransom rest.......

Not sure if anyone has done this comparison, but it should be done especially for vendors that are selling the aftermarket barrels. I agree with you, before any claims are made, proof should be presented.

[Sean Gaines]

well you are talking about combat guns, these guns were not built for the bianchi cup. I think when choosing an aftermarket barrel, you must look at whether the barrel is a gunsmith fit, or a drop in barrel. Typically you will get better results with a gunsmith fit barrel where the lockup is consitant, with no movement.

[JeffWard]

well you are talking about combat guns, these guns were not built for the bianchi cup. I think when choosing an aftermarket barrel, you must look at whether the barrel is a gunsmith fit, or a drop in barrel. Typically you will get better results with a gunsmith fit barrel where the lockup is consitant, with no movement.

1) We use "combat" guns as game guns. Triggers make a huge difference. Recoil springs make a little difference for a small investment. Sights make a big difference.

2) Theoretically, you are absolutely correct. A gunsmith FITTED barrel SHOULD produce better groups than a non-fitted factory or drop-in barrel.

- But is it really better "fitted" than the factory barrel?
- Does faster, or slower, or deeper, or different shaped rifling effect a pistol round, over 4-5"?
- How much difference does less than a thousandths of fitting make, at 25 yards?

I know for sure that a match grade rifle barrel, with the proper twist, rifling, crown, barrel stiffness, cooling properties, etc, etc, etc, can effect accuracy of a high ballistic coefficient rifle bullet at 100-500 yards. There is a HUGE difference in a quality rifle barrel over a crappy one...

BUT are we "putting spoilers on Honda Civics", by swapping and fitting barrels on Glocks and M&Ps?

Jeff

[Resjudicata]

I haven't done the testing either.

What I would expect to be the case is the same with a 1911. A barrel that is gun smith fit (properly) will make a difference regardless of the brand (factory/aftermarket). Assuming no odd issues like damaged rifling, etc.

I think also that slide to frame fit on a striker fired gun is a bigger issue than it is in a hammer fired gun. The trigger system interacts with and may change the condition of the slide to frame fit when the gun is fired in a loose fitting gun.

I wonder what Springfield does to TGO's XD to get it ready for Bianchi Cup shooting. I would expect that the slide to frame fit is taken to an almost zero movement fit and the factory barrel is welded and recut to an almost zero movement fit. (Besides the obvious trigger job).

FYI, my understanding is that the guy who finished behind TGO in Production Division at the Cup this year used a factory Glock. It must have still been pretty accurate. Of course, that could be a one in a thousand gun, too.

Just my opinion.

Chris

[Flexmoney]

There is a HUGE difference in a quality rifle barrel over a crappy one...

I think we have some pretty good barrels available to us as pistol shooters. I would agree with Sean...fit is a most important factor if you want to try to wring them out for accuracy.

There are some other aspects that have been tested. Cautery did some good work along these lines. (I'm not sure his website is still up and available?)

[Loves2Shoot]

Yes, you should get an improvement with a properly fit match barrel, BUT there is a wide range in factory barrel performance and fit so taking 1 gun of any model and doing the test is statistically irrelevant. Do 100 and you will get a better idea of the performance that a particular platform can perform to.

In the test that you propose, without highly skilled shooters your results would be pretty wild also IMO.


Chris,

It is my understanding from Rob that SA has over-sized barrel that they can fit, so they don't have to weld and fit.

[JeffWard]

Any updates on this subject? About the only thing I HAVEN'T done to my M&P Limited 40 is a barrel swap.

Have anyone seen a REMARKABLE difference in accuracy with an aftermarket barrel in an M&P or Glock?

Thanks!
Jeff

[roostershooter]

Any updates on this subject? About the only thing I HAVEN'T done to my M&P Limited 40 is a barrel swap.

Have anyone seen a REMARKABLE difference in accuracy with an aftermarket barrel in an M&P or Glock?

Thanks!
Jeff

hausofguns.com did a Youtube video awhile back on the Glock 20 and KKM Barrel. That's the only blind comparison I can think of off hand.

I have several, and might try one myself on the standard M&P pro9 barrel vs. the KKM Match 5" M&P barrel. I know there is a difference, but I guess I just need to test it for proof. Give me a couple of days. I'll come up with something.

[ryan45kim]

There are no gunsmith fit barrels for the M&P at this point just drop ins. I’ve talked to several companies that say they are working on them but after over a year of hearing “soon” I’ve lost hope.

[Avedis]

have you checked out the thread on m4carbine about the stormlake fitted barrels for M&P? I would link you but account is too new, sorry.

[ryan45kim]

Thanks for the heads up I was unaware of the storm lake oversized barrel (I only knew about the drop in). Unfortunately these are like the apex bar-sto barrels, hey look at these pictures we will have them sometime. O well back to dreaming.

[raz-0]

Any updates on this subject? About the only thing I HAVEN'T done to my M&P Limited 40 is a barrel swap.

Have anyone seen a REMARKABLE difference in accuracy with an aftermarket barrel in an M&P or Glock?

Thanks!
Jeff

I've put a storm lake in mine. The motivation was that my stock barrel had one funky land that was shaving plated and moly coated bullets and leading very badly. By the time I noticed this it was during the last component shortage and couldn't be that picky about bullets. At the same time s&w had poor barrel availability and things were leaving the factory with much worse barrels than mine.

I get better groups with the storm lake. If I swap barrels. I get better groups than with my friends m&p, and he gets better groups with mine.

It does have a tight chamber though. Lets me make pf with less powder, but also requires more qc on my loading process for ammo.

If it looks good, and shoots good, I'd leave it be. If you like the gun and no matter what, you can't outshoot your other guns with it, give it a try.

[tcurrin]

Consider too that the load you shoot makes a big difference. I've shot a lot of bullseye with .22's and I can tell you that ammo has a big effect on accuracy. Whenever I've gotten a new 22 target pistol I've spent hours shooting diferent brands and lots of ammo to find what it likes and what it doesn't. Unfortunately, doing that with a centerfire pistol can be cost prohibitive. You may want to try varying your load before looking for a new barrel.

Just my 2 cents.

[Travis224]

I have a m&p 9mm and bought a kkm drop in and can say that in factory ammo tested that they prefer different ammo completely. Doesnt shoot all ammo better over the factory barrel at all. But if you seek out the factory ammo that each barrel prefers, i see about 1/2 size in group reduction with no fliers with the kkm...although the fliers might happen because i shoot the cheapest ammo i can find. Kkm barrel wont shoot win. White box even close to as good as factory barrel does with same ammo for example.