40 replies to this topic

[Dux-R-Us]

I've been a shotgunner all my life, well at least 35 years of it. I am programmed to focus on the target. I started shooting a pistol and IPSC 1.5 years ago and I have a very difficult time remembering to focus on the front sight.

Usually the first and second stages in a match I don't even see my front sight, especially at close targets. I am shooting instictively, but manage to get mostly A's. The longer targets I try hard to remember to front sight focus.

I have read the FAQ on front sight focus. Information overload.

I know I need to practice more with the pistol and do more dry fire excercises. Most of my shooting is on the skeet field. I am not sure I can really improve with the Pistol at the rate I'm going. I'm in D class in Single stack (SW 1911 .45).

Anyways, the idea of focusing on the front sight is totally alien to me and it is hard to overcome. Comments and thoughts?

Cheers

Kevin

[R-Bros_JLR]

Maybe you should shoot in Open!

I'm struggling with this myself and you just have to retrain yourself through lots of practice sessions!!

[DonovanM]

Dry fire. Set up some targets in your house or somewhere else convenient. And any time you can, even if it's only for 5 minutes at a time, get your gun in your hands and practice focusing on the front sight as you acquire the target. All it will take is some mindful repetition. Practice transitions by looking at the target, snapping your gun to it, getting a crisp front sight focus and proper alignment right before you break the shot. Rinse, repeat, for as long as it takes.

[benos]

Even for "pistol specialists," it's somewhat of a natural thing to not look at the front sight (when you should be).

After training for 20 years, before every stage I shot, I still had to tell myself to look right at the front sight for every shot) that I knew I needed to see the sights for).

It turned that after many years of training, I relized I could get "back on the sights" for most every shot, no matter how close the targets were - and I scored better because of it.
be

[Flexmoney]

If it were easy...

[Steve Anderson]

As I full-blown open addict, dot loving junkie, I know exactly how you feel.

When I landed on the production super squad at the last nationals I attended, my first stage featured 2 texas stars at 12-15 yards.

I got called to shoot first.

I wasn't scared, but I was very aware of the challenge I faced.

I was able to get a front sight focus because I acknowledged (to myself) that a front sight focus was the only way I was gonna be remotely successful.

It's difficult to express, but I reached a deeper level of understanding of the fact that the only way I was gonna hit those plates was to use the best resources I had available to me.

The best resource for that challenge happened to be the front sight. So I used it.

To elaborate, every situation will have problems and resources availalable to solve those problems. If you're shooting an iron sighted gun at a challenging target, is there a better tool for success than the front sight?

To further compound the conundrum, as you process higher levels of visual input this process will feel very slow. This takes some getting used to.

But what else could you do?

What better resource is available?

[Graham Smith]

Anyways, the idea of focusing on the front sight is totally alien to me and it is hard to overcome.

It's tough to teach old dogs new tricks, but it can be done. My initial training in pistols was for short distance defensive use where point shooting is the norm and a sight picture is the exception. Combine that with my poor eyesight and it's very tough for me to knuckle down and get a good sharp sight picture every shot. But unless I do, then my scores rapidly start getting littered with mikes.

The only solution I can offer is to not pull the trigger until you have a solid sight picture every single shot. If that means your times are double what everyone else is doing, then so be it. Speed comes with repetition.

And as Steve will tell you, dry fire practice can really help with this. Teach yourself to get the gun up to the position where your sights are lined up with your eye and the target every single time.

Now, if I could just follow my own advice <sigh>...

[benos]

As I full-blown open addict, dot loving junkie, I know exactly how you feel.

When I landed on the production super squad at the last nationals I attended, my first stage featured 2 texas stars at 12-15 yards.

I got called to shoot first.

I wasn't scared, but I was very aware of the challenge I faced.

I was able to get a front sight focus because I acknowledged (to myself) that a front sight focus was the only way I was gonna be remotely successful.

It's difficult to express, but I reached a deeper level of understanding of the fact that the only way I was gonna hit those plates was to use the best resources I had available to me.

The best resource for that challenge happened to be the front sight. So I used it.

To elaborate, every situation will have problems and resources availalable to solve those problems. If you're shooting an iron sighted gun at a challenging target, is there a better tool for success than the front sight?

To further compound the conundrum, as you process higher levels of visual input this process will feel very slow. This takes some getting used to.

But what else could you do?

Nice stuff Steve.

Make it a goal to find the most efficient and effective method to accomplish each thing you do.
be

[six-gun shooter]

I do this too. Never thought of it that way, but I used to shoot a lot of Skeet before I started pistol shooting. I still can't focus on my sights, rather just looking "through" them and focusing on the target. Somehow I'm not entirely convinced it's a problem, as I seem to shoot pretty well regardless. But maybe that's why I'm only a B shooter...

[benos]

I do this too. Never thought of it that way, but I used to shoot a lot of Skeet before I started pistol shooting. I still can't focus on my sights, rather just looking "through" them and focusing on the target. Somehow I'm not entirely convinced it's a problem, as I seem to shoot pretty well regardless. But maybe that's why I'm only a B shooter...

The visual technique that leads to greatness in clay target shooting - looking right at the target - is the opposite of what is required to shoot a pistol as good as it can be shot. If you want to move out of B class, you might dedicate some serious training to: seeing the front sight in razor sharp focus before each shot fires. A good axiom is "keep your eyes moving." From the target, back to the sights, back to the next target, back to the sites, etc., forever.
be

[Scoobb]

Thanks for the great info. This is awesome for me as I'm still trying to get these fundamentals engraved in my head. I also have a hard time focusing on the front sight, I feel as though I look through it, focusing more on the target. I still see the sights, but they are blurry. Again thanks for the imput

Brian

[six-gun shooter]

I do this too. Never thought of it that way, but I used to shoot a lot of Skeet before I started pistol shooting. I still can't focus on my sights, rather just looking "through" them and focusing on the target. Somehow I'm not entirely convinced it's a problem, as I seem to shoot pretty well regardless. But maybe that's why I'm only a B shooter...

The visual technique that leads to greatness in clay target shooting - looking right at the target - is the opposite of what is required to shoot a pistol as good as it can be shot. If you want to move out of B class, you might dedicate some serious training to: seeing the front sight in razor sharp focus before each shot fires. A good axiom is "keep your eyes moving." From the target, back to the sights, back to the next target, back to the sites, etc., forever.
be

I'm probably mistaken, but it seems to me that focusing on my sights would increase accuracy more than speed. My issue is more speed than accuracy. Admittedly, the local shooting group is relatively small (we only have one master class shooter), but I usually have the top or near the top score (not counting time). That's why I said I'm not entirely sure it's a problem.

The other reason is that after many years of shooting (not necessarily this sport), it will be VERY difficult to change. I just can't see how I can focus on the sights without closing my off eye or taping my glasses, neither of which I'm very willing to do. Something to do over the coming winter...

Not necessarily disagreeing, just seeking knowledge. That's why I joined this forum.

[poopshooter]

i want to start a very front sight intensive dry fire training routine for the winter and see how i emerge. Hearing that it could be a big help moving from B to A...prolly the place i can make the biggest gains at this point.

[dravz]

The visual technique that leads to greatness in clay target shooting - looking right at the target - is the opposite of what is required to shoot a pistol as good as it can be shot.
be

This is exactly right. The skillsets between the two sports are totally different. It's like trying to go between tennis and racquetball, they are almost mutually exclusive sports.

[benos]

The visual technique that leads to greatness in clay target shooting - looking right at the target - is the opposite of what is required to shoot a pistol as good as it can be shot.
be

This is exactly right. The skillsets between the two sports are totally different. It's like trying to go between tennis and racquetball, they are almost mutually exclusive sports.

Back in the ol' Sprotsman's Team Challenge days, I worked with a lot of ace shotgunners. It was always really tough to get them to accept that looking right at the front sight and calling the shot was where it was it at.
be

[West Texas Granny]

I've been a shotgunner all my life, well at least 35 years of it. I am programmed to focus on the target. I started shooting a pistol and IPSC 1.5 years ago and I have a very difficult time remembering to focus on the front sight.

Usually the first and second stages in a match I don't even see my front sight, especially at close targets. I am shooting instictively, but manage to get mostly A's. The longer targets I try hard to remember to front sight focus.

I have read the FAQ on front sight focus. Information overload.

I know I need to practice more with the pistol and do more dry fire excercises. Most of my shooting is on the skeet field. I am not sure I can really improve with the Pistol at the rate I'm going. I'm in D class in Single stack (SW 1911 .45).

Anyways, the idea of focusing on the front sight is totally alien to me and it is hard to overcome. Comments and thoughts?

Cheers

Kevin

I believe I have the opposite problem. I've just started in the last two weeks shooting trap and skeet. It's a different universe. It's also addictive. I keep trying to put the bead on the target and it don't seem to work that way. Silly clay pigeon won't stay still.

Edited by West Texas Granny, 28 November 2011 - 08:14 AM.

[sincityvogel]

great advise.
thanks

[tkheard]

great advise.
thanks

But what about us that can't focus on the front sight? My bifocals require that I tilt my head back to focus. The results have been worse that just letting it be fuzzy. Any suggestions for us 'old eyes' guys?

[Rick B]

great advise.
thanks

But what about us that can't focus on the front sight? My bifocals require that I tilt my head back to focus. The results have been worse that just letting it be fuzzy. Any suggestions for us 'old eyes' guys?

tkheard...I also wear bifocals. I went to my optometrist and had glasses made where I could see distance from my left eye and a clear sight picture with my arms extended with my right eye. I believe they are called monovision glasses. I put them on when I get to the range. It takes a very short time to get used to. You will have a good sight picture without having to tilt your head back.

[jar]

But what about us that can't focus on the front sight? My bifocals require that I tilt my head back to focus. The results have been worse that just letting it be fuzzy. Any suggestions for us 'old eyes' guys?

Sounds like a good excuse to buy an open gun to me.

[GregJ]

great advise.
thanks

But what about us that can't focus on the front sight? My bifocals require that I tilt my head back to focus. The results have been worse that just letting it be fuzzy. Any suggestions for us 'old eyes' guys?

tkheard...I also wear bifocals. I went to my optometrist and had glasses made where I could see distance from my left eye and a clear sight picture with my arms extended with my right eye. I believe they are called monovision glasses. I put them on when I get to the range. It takes a very short time to get used to. You will have a good sight picture without having to tilt your head back.

I had the same type of glasses made two years ago. I wished I'd thought to have done it years ago!!! I highly recommend this type of eyeglass Rx for those of us that have old/bad eyes.

[tkheard]

Thanks for the responses. I've been looking at other threads and finding putting the near up high. I may try that with Optx stick-ons before having lenses ground. Unlike most, I've been wearing readers for almost 40 years; it's only been in the last couple that my arms have gotten *really* short!
Tom

great advise.
thanks

But what about us that can't focus on the front sight? My bifocals require that I tilt my head back to focus. The results have been worse that just letting it be fuzzy. Any suggestions for us 'old eyes' guys?

tkheard...I also wear bifocals. I went to my optometrist and had glasses made where I could see distance from my left eye and a clear sight picture with my arms extended with my right eye. I believe they are called monovision glasses. I put them on when I get to the range. It takes a very short time to get used to. You will have a good sight picture without having to tilt your head back.

I had the same type of glasses made two years ago. I wished I'd thought to have done it years ago!!! I highly recommend this type of eyeglass Rx for those of us that have old/bad eyes.

[benos]

great advise.
thanks

But what about us that can't focus on the front sight? My bifocals require that I tilt my head back to focus. The results have been worse that just letting it be fuzzy. Any suggestions for us 'old eyes' guys?

Have a speical pair of shooting glassees made - have your aiming eye lense ground to a perfect focus on the front sight. And if you leave both eyes open, then have the non-dominant eye's lense so that eye focuses at distance.
be

[Ssanders224]

I just found this thread, and found it interesting.
I Shoot shotguns AND pistols competitively, but have only picked up pistols this year.
I have been shooting skeet and trap competitions for years.

The transitions from Target/Sight focus have definitely been a challenge. Watching the target with intense focus has been so ingrained in my mind over the years with a shotgun, that is seems natural to do the same thing with a pistol. I have no problem focusing on the sight if I'm shooting bullseye or shooting for groups, but when I'm moving or shooting steel it is very hard for me to keep my focus on the sight. Honestly I do pretty well that way too, which I believe comes from shooting a shotgun that way for so long, but I lack the accuracy edge.

Whats funny, is that part of my brains issue with focusing on the front sight is that I feel like I cant pick a spot to shoot on the target as well. But when I actually do focus on the sight, the shots end up exactly where I intended them to be.

What makes it even worse, is now that I'm practicing my front sight focus more, I find my focus popping from front sight to target and back randomly throughout a stage. That makes it REALLLY hard to shoot well consistently.

SO, I'm just going to keep practicing, dry firing, and reminding myself before each string of fire to look the sight. And maybe put the scaterguns in the safe for a while.

[benos]

I just found this thread, and found it interesting.
I Shoot shotguns AND pistols competitively, but have only picked up pistols this year.
I have been shooting skeet and trap competitions for years.

The transitions from Target/Sight focus have definitely been a challenge. Watching the target with intense focus has been so ingrained in my mind over the years with a shotgun, that is seems natural to do the same thing with a pistol. I have no problem focusing on the sight if I'm shooting bullseye or shooting for groups, but when I'm moving or shooting steel it is very hard for me to keep my focus on the sight. Honestly I do pretty well that way too, which I believe comes from shooting a shotgun that way for so long, but I lack the accuracy edge.

Whats funny, is that part of my brains issue with focusing on the front sight is that I feel like I cant pick a spot to shoot on the target as well. But when I actually do focus on the sight, the shots end up exactly where I intended them to be.

What makes it even worse, is now that I'm practicing my front sight focus more, I find my focus popping from front sight to target and back randomly throughout a stage. That makes it REALLLY hard to shoot well consistently.

SO, I'm just going to keep practicing, dry firing, and reminding myself before each string of fire to look the sight.

All good stuff!

As you are learning, shooting multiple targets quickly and accurately with a pistol requires that you "keep your eyes moving." From the target, back to the sights, to the next target, back to the sights - on an on - forever.
be