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Recoil Master vs Tungsten guide rod


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#1 STIed

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:31 PM

Need some help. I am considering going to a tungsten guide rod and 14# spring. My biggest reason is to try to get my front sight back down faster.

Here is what I currently run for USPSA Limited Major:

STI Brazos HP Edge Chromed
40 S&W
Heavy Recoil master
PF= 170 w/180 bullet

Please let me know the pros and cons you have had with this change.

Thank you in advanced.

Edited by STIed, 11 May 2011 - 01:34 PM.

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#2 pjb45

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:44 PM

I had a recoil master type guide rod. It puked-FTF on me at L10 Nationals one year. Tried all kinds of things to fix the problem except replacing the guide rod.

Brandon loaned me pistol for a stage - no puking (meaning is was not the ammo or the mags) - he replaced the recoil master type guide rod with a tungsten SV. I have never looked back.

I use a SV tungsten whenever I can sans SS.

Here is the deal as I believe it to be true, the springs were wearing out or I might have been pressing my thumb along the slide, the bottom line was the slide did not have enough energy to feed. After going to a traditional long guide rod made of tungsten, I have not had any problems. Other opinions abound. For me, KISS works.

#3 Loves2Shoot

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:52 PM

Since the slide cycles in about .06-.08 sec your front sight should be down in about the same amount of time. My guess, is that you don't need your sight down faster, your grip or vision needs work.

A heavy gun will shoot softer, but takes more energy to start and stop (ie transitions) but your size and strength will dictate if that matters to you. If you are small a heavy gun might just plain make the gun easier to shoot. If you are hulkish, it is a moot point as the added weight or recoil are proportionally smaller.

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#4 Torogi

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:34 PM

Since the slide cycles in about .06-.08 sec your front sight should be down in about the same amount of time. My guess, is that you don't need your sight down faster, your grip or vision needs work.

A heavy gun will shoot softer, but takes more energy to start and stop (ie transitions) but your size and strength will dictate if that matters to you. If you are small a heavy gun might just plain make the gun easier to shoot. If you are hulkish, it is a moot point as the added weight or recoil are proportionally smaller.


+1.

I used to have a recoil master, switched to tungsten guide rod, no damn difference. BUT at that time, i was such a noob to notice the difference anyway. Found out now that it doesn't matter what I had, if I wasn't 'seeing' the cycling of shots, any succeeding shots would still be slow, even if technically the next shot is ready to be shot.

#5 ParaGunner

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:59 PM

Get a SS or tungsten guide rod and try some recoil springs in the 12lbs-14lbs range. I ran a 14lbs for a while and switched to the 12lbs spring,the sights track so much better for me with the 12lbs.
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#6 soaringf22

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 04:03 PM

I use the cominolli tungsten gr with 3 buffers, two on the rod one in the back and a 12lb spring...Bill Drills it may feel faster but not be faster

#7 Pat Miles

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 04:54 PM

Work on timing drills when you try different recoil springs. The gun doesn't lie.
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#8 CocoBolo

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 06:36 PM

Compared to an STI Edge the Brazos (and you didn't say if it was a full dust cover or not) is a different personality. The weight of the slide and dust cover on the Edge Holds it down. The lighter slide weight of the Brazos reacts faster sort of like an open gun, actually when I shot a Brazos side by side with my Edge the Brazos felt more like a 9 mm than a 40 in the way it reacted because of the faster slide movement.

But to your question, a tungsten guide rod will put more weight out front and help absorb some recoil, with a standard guide rod you can try different spring till you find one that suits your skill level and style. I started with a 14# but after two years having improved my skill I went to a 12# spring. I did drills to prove which one was faster, with the timer, the timer doesn't lie.

I had a Recoil Master and it worked ok but the two pulse you get when shooting slowed me down more than the lighter recoil. The have a reputation for failure but I sold mine while it was still working.

I used buffers in a CZ TS because that gun is designed to use them, but nope not running them in any open gun or Limted gun (S_I), keep it simple, if it isn't broken don't fix it.

Try some 185gr Precision Moly bullets with 4.5gr N320 or 4.7gr WST and that just might put a smile on your face, if not move up to 200gr.

If the gun is comfortable to shoot then work on the part that saves the most time, movement skills, its not how fast you get there it is how fast you get there ready to shoot!

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#9 STIed

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:15 AM

As an update; took out recoilmaster and installed tungsten guide rod and ran with 16# spring. Only had time for 50 rounds, but really liked the difference. The front sight really snaps back without dipping below rear. Ran it in our monthly match the next day and felt very confident. Need more time and rounds to be sure. Will try 14# next.

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#10 Bigpops

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 10:51 AM

I tried it all with my Brazos HP Edge. If weight is what your after then the tungsten is the trick. I tried it and also added a Dawson Ice magwell. What I ended up with was a very heavy gun that actually slowed me down.

To save time (and typing)....I ended up with a SS guide rod but kept the plug tunsten. I also kept the magwell on for comfort reasons. I ran a 14 lb spring and loved it. The gun always ran 100%. I did not notice much difference between the RM and the SS rod. I think the older RM's just got a bad wrap. I would bet most people could not tell the difference if it was not told to them.

As put to me...comparing this game to auto racing - "would you rather race a Cadillac or a Ferrari"? I chose to lose the weight and go with a Ferrari.

Good luck with your testing. You will run what works for you. :cheers:

#11 STIed

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:22 PM

I tried it all with my Brazos HP Edge. If weight is what your after then the tungsten is the trick. I tried it and also added a Dawson Ice magwell. What I ended up with was a very heavy gun that actually slowed me down.

To save time (and typing)....I ended up with a SS guide rod but kept the plug tunsten. I also kept the magwell on for comfort reasons. I ran a 14 lb spring and loved it. The gun always ran 100%. I did not notice much difference between the RM and the SS rod. I think the older RM's just got a bad wrap. I would bet most people could not tell the difference if it was not told to them.

As put to me...comparing this game to auto racing - "would you rather race a Cadillac or a Ferrari"? I chose to lose the weight and go with a Ferrari.

Good luck with your testing. You will run what works for you. :cheers:


I think the biggest difference I am finding is that I have more options for springs than I had with the RM.

Wally

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#12 twodownzero

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:43 PM

I think you're going to find that ammo, not equipment, makes the most difference in your shooting. Just shoot. I know it's hard to do it, but just shoot.
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#13 darnobody

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:57 AM

 

I think you're going to find that ammo, not equipment, makes the most difference in your shooting. Just shoot. I know it's hard to do it, but just shoot.

 
I agree... Just Shoot. You will adjust to whatever. I am facing the same problem myself, but after reading this, I agree... Just Shoot.
Thanks

Edited by darnobody, 27 August 2013 - 09:59 AM.


#14 sfinney

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:48 AM

12 pound spring. Trust me. SS guide rod is fine, tungsten is ok if you need nose weight.

Put your self on a timer, shoot splits, check hits. Give it a chance
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#15 fastarget

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:54 PM

was thinking Tungsten here, since my gun is an eagle type with bushing barrel, HOWEVER, the local shooters said no way, tungsten rods break................so, any problems with broken rods??????????????


"L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace."

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#16 titandriver

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:20 PM

Been using the same Tungsten guide rod in a variety of SVI/STI pistols for over ten years - ain't  broke yet after tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of rounds!


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#17 fastarget

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

Been using the same Tungsten guide rod in a variety of SVI/STI pistols for over ten years - ain't  broke yet after tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of rounds!


Not sure why I was told that, one shooter is a pro. I just ordered one from infinity. Most of the ones I have seen seem to be steel in the base and tungsten in the rod.
"L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace."

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#18 blaster113

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:36 AM

I don't know about adding more weight into an already heavy gun.  I'd suggest trying a regular steel EGW guide rod for STI's and play with springs.  That extra weight will slow you down on transitions.  I used to run an Edge and the gun felt better with a regular guide rod vs. the Recoilmaster. 



#19 titandriver

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:41 AM

My tungsten rod weighs one ounce more than a steel one. Guessin' a guy needs to hit the weight room if that extra ounce becomes problematic!


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#20 not4you2know

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:24 AM

I'm running a EGW Tungsten guide rod with a 14# spring in my HP Brazos. I also put a extreme shooters grip on the gun. The return is good. It didn't slow my transitions. The biggest difference in recoil feel so far was when I went with BBIs over some WST. Just my input.



#21 blaster113

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:57 PM

I know my way around a weight room so its not like I an extra ounce of guide rod is going to break my wrist.  If one feels they need the extra weight of a tungsten rod then that is what they need.  You'll find that the vast majority of guys running an Edge or full dust cover 5" use a regular SS guide rod.  Again, whatever works for you.   I dumped over 10000 rounds through the Edge I had with a regular guide rod; more weight in that gun would've slowed me down. 



#22 fastarget

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:38 PM

I think the weight was being added to a short cover bushing gun....
"L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace."

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#23 blaster113

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:58 PM

The Brazos HP Edge is a full dust cover gun

#24 fastarget

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:15 PM

Yes sir but the one I wrote about is a bushing barrel short. Just wanted to make sure I had not misled the thread.....
"L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace."

Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards...

#25 PinoyShooter06

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:20 PM

I replaced my recoilmaster with a SVI tungsten guide rod and #12lbs WOLFF conventional recoil spring on my STI short dust cover LIMITED GUN. functions well




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