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#1 rrickysee

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:25 PM

I recently was loading about 3K rounds of 9mm. My powder charge seems to have drifted up. I was loading Zero 147gr JHP at C.O.L 1.100 with 3.6gr of Tightgroup. My Lyman 48th and 49th edition and Hodgdon web site show 3.6 to be the max. After loading for a while It had creeped up to 3.7 grains. I double checked the scale and I am at 3.7. Should I pull the ammo or shot it?

#2 Foxbat

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:30 PM

Did you chrono the 3.6 gr load? Did you try it in your gun, do you know how it behaved? Or you simply went to it without normal load development process?

If you shot the 3.6 before and it worked fine, then there is no problem. If 3.6 was safe then so will be 3.7. But as the rule you don't start at maximum. Be it as it may, there should not be much difference between 3.6 and 3.7.

#3 rrickysee

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:45 PM

Did you chrono the 3.6 gr load? Did you try it in your gun, do you know how it behaved? Or you simply went to it without normal load development process?

If you shot the 3.6 before and it worked fine, then there is no problem. If 3.6 was safe then so will be 3.7. But as the rule you don't start at maximum. Be it as it may, there should not be much difference between 3.6 and 3.7.

I have shot the 3.6 load with no problems in my G34. Im shooting SS this year with a STI Trojan. Thanks

#4 CocoBolo

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:14 PM

I shot a bunch at 3.5gr TG w/147gr Zero JHP @1.145 they crono at 951 avg or 139.7 pf plenty too hot. So chances are its not going to be the nice soft load you were looking for. I went with 3.2gr clays @132pf, very nice.

Wow 3K is a lot for a sample batch.

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#5 rrickysee

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:37 PM

It wasn't a sample batch. I planned to load 6K with 3.6gr of TG. But at some point I ended up at 3.7gr. I did open a new batch of powder at about 1.5k. Could that be where my load changed or do the powder drop drift out? Im on a year old Dillion 650.

#6 al503

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:50 PM

I did open a new batch of powder at about 1.5k. Could that be where my load changed or do the powder drop drift out? Im on a year old Dillion 650.

That's very possible. If the manual lists 3.6 as max, you probably have a little headroom so 3.7 is really not going to be a big deal.

Any reason you are loading it on the shorter side? You might consider going a little longer on the OAL (as long as your mags and bbl chamber freebore will reliably allow) as this will have much more of an effect on pressure v. a tenth of powder.

It's Brazos Custom, not Brazo, not Brazo's


#7 CocoBolo

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 06:22 PM

It wasn't a sample batch. I planned to load 6K with 3.6gr of TG. But at some point I ended up at 3.7gr. I did open a new batch of powder at about 1.5k. Could that be where my load changed or do the powder drop drift out? Im on a year old Dillion 650.

I have not had any issues with my Dillon xl650 with charge creep. 147 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.100" 3.2 855 22,500 CUP 3.6 929 27,500 CUP You are less than 3% over max, and using their pressure figures you still have a ways to go to 33,600 CUP which they show on other loads this is 19% above 27500. The math says you should be able to shoot them.

Personally I don't recommend exceeding the mfg's recommendation, but it takes only one flake of powder to go from 3.6 to 3.7 on an electronic scale.

I'm sticking to my first answer, you probably will be disappointed in the load.

Edited by CocoBolo, 01 April 2011 - 06:25 PM.

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#8 Foxbat

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 07:09 PM

I have shot the 3.6 load with no problems in my G34. Im shooting SS this year with a STI Trojan. Thanks


Then you will be OK, most likely, but I would try some rounds made after the powder change first, to be sure. Different powder lots can have slightly different densities, which might explain the difference in weight, as you are measuring volume... but more importantly different lots can have substantially different burn characteristics.

So while for the same lot the difference between 3.6 and 3.7 would be negligible, if lots changed it is a different story now. So compare some rounds made with old and new batch, and if they feel and behave similarly - go ahead and use them.

#9 rrickysee

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 07:25 PM

Thanks everyone. I feel better about using them now. Sounds like I should make minor with no problem. I failed to make major at a Area6 match last year. Embarrassing. :(

#10 GrumpyOne

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 08:12 PM

Thanks everyone. I feel better about using them now. Sounds like I should make minor with no problem. I failed to make major at a Area6 match last year. Embarrassing. :(

Ummm, in what division? I ask because the only division you can make major in with a 9mm is Open (edit to add: and revolver).... And if you are shooting that combination in an open gun, there are much, much better combinations out there for it.

Edited by GrumpyOne, 01 April 2011 - 08:16 PM.

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#11 rrickysee

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 04:35 AM

I was shooting a G21 in L10.

#12 gng4life

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 10:37 AM

Also remember, when your scale says 3.6, it may be at 3.69 or close to that. Since most scales don't go to the hundredths place, you can't see that and you may have been on the border of 3.6 and 3.7.

I'm in agreement with most here, I think it should be fine but you need to know what 3.6 was shooting like before you run out and shoot the 3.7. If it was already crazy hot (which I doubt), then I wouldn't try it. Otherwise, you should be fine.

Are you going to Area 6 this year?? If so, see you there...

#13 Marv Z

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 11:34 AM

I recently was loading about 3K rounds of 9mm. My powder charge seems to have drifted up. I was loading Zero 147gr JHP at C.O.L 1.100 with 3.6gr of Tightgroup. My Lyman 48th and 49th edition and Hodgdon web site show 3.6 to be the max. After loading for a while It had creeped up to 3.7 grains. I double checked the scale and I am at 3.7. Should I pull the ammo or shot it?

Why so short? I load for my Trojan 9mm at 1.165 with 4.0gr Titegroup with a 124 MG. They feed much better long and fit in the mag with no problem. Shoots soft and flat. Haven't chronoed yet as it's been too cold out!!!

Edited by Marv Z, 02 April 2011 - 11:36 AM.

Too many guns and not enough time....

#14 rrickysee

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 02:52 PM

Also remember, when your scale says 3.6, it may be at 3.69 or close to that. Since most scales don't go to the hundredths place, you can't see that and you may have been on the border of 3.6 and 3.7.

I'm in agreement with most here, I think it should be fine but you need to know what 3.6 was shooting like before you run out and shoot the 3.7. If it was already crazy hot (which I doubt), then I wouldn't try it. Otherwise, you should be fine.

Are you going to Area 6 this year?? If so, see you there...

I'll be at Area 6 this year shooting SS. I shot the ammo today with no problems. Primers flattened out a little. Recoil wasn't bad.

#15 rrickysee

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 02:58 PM

I recently was loading about 3K rounds of 9mm. My powder charge seems to have drifted up. I was loading Zero 147gr JHP at C.O.L 1.100 with 3.6gr of Tightgroup. My Lyman 48th and 49th edition and Hodgdon web site show 3.6 to be the max. After loading for a while It had creeped up to 3.7 grains. I double checked the scale and I am at 3.7. Should I pull the ammo or shot it?

Why so short? I load for my Trojan 9mm at 1.165 with 4.0gr Titegroup with a 124 MG. They feed much better long and fit in the mag with no problem. Shoots soft and flat. Haven't chronoed yet as it's been too cold out!!!

I have always loaded 9mm at 1.100. Thats what Atlanta Arms runs there 147gr JHP. Hodgdon has the load data for 147gr JHP with Tightgroup at 1.100. I haven't had any problems with my STI or any of my Glocks.

#16 perrysho

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 07:45 PM

Two grandsons and I have used a lot of 147 Gr RNFP Plated Rainier with 3.5 Gr Titegroup for steel.

Don't think you will see / feel much difference. But Borrow or buy a Chrono and do a lil testing it's better to know. Think Midway has one for about $120 thats ok.

Careful taking advice/info/data from anyone, do your own research and testing.

Glass eyes look good but very poor for sight. Safety glasses and kevlar gloves for testing.

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#17 xracer

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 04:11 PM

I know, I'm a newb and this is my first post but I would be a tad concerned. I made 12 loads on Saturday, all with Rem brass, winchester primers, 115gr JHP winchester bullets and at 1.125 OAL, 3 with 4.3gr of TG, 3 with 4.4, 3 with 4.5 and 3 with 4.6. 4.8 was listed as max load (though with different brass, bullet and primer)so I dropped 10% and started at 4.3. The gun is a Beretta PX4 Compact, the 4.3 caused a FTF after the first and second rounds, the 4.4 was fine, the 4.5 was fine but the 4.6 left a small but clearly visible bulge/crease at the base of the case where the feed ramp comes up. Also, from 4.3 to 4.4 was the difference between not functioning and functioning fine. I guess the point is a little can go a long way and from 4.5 to 4.6 in the PX 4 it was a little too much for my combfort.

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#18 Service Desk

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 04:12 AM

I recently was loading about 3K rounds of 9mm. My powder charge seems to have drifted up. I was loading Zero 147gr JHP at C.O.L 1.100 with 3.6gr of Tightgroup. My Lyman 48th and 49th edition and Hodgdon web site show 3.6 to be the max. After loading for a while It had creeped up to 3.7 grains. I double checked the scale and I am at 3.7. Should I pull the ammo or shot it?


A few of my Dillon powder measures do throw a tenth or so heavier as the powder level drops - so I feel your pain. The consensus seems to be you should "shot it", but it makes more sense to shoot a few test shots and see what the results are. There may be a :surprise: moment in there somewhere.

Edited by Service Desk, 11 October 2011 - 04:18 AM.

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#19 Service Desk

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 04:16 AM

I know, I'm a newb and this is my first post but I would be a tad concerned. I made 12 loads on Saturday, all with Rem brass, winchester primers, 115gr JHP winchester bullets and at 1.125 OAL, 3 with 4.3gr of TG, 3 with 4.4, 3 with 4.5 and 3 with 4.6. 4.8 was listed as max load (though with different brass, bullet and primer)so I dropped 10% and started at 4.3. The gun is a Beretta PX4 Compact, the 4.3 caused a FTF after the first and second rounds, the 4.4 was fine, the 4.5 was fine but the 4.6 left a small but clearly visible bulge/crease at the base of the case where the feed ramp comes up. Also, from 4.3 to 4.4 was the difference between not functioning and functioning fine. I guess the point is a little can go a long way and from 4.5 to 4.6 in the PX 4 it was a little too much for my combfort.


Dude !!!! the one on the left is seriously close to the handgrenade zone. :devil:
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#20 Jon Merricks

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 05:59 AM

You really do have some pressure issues on both. Might want to take another look at what you are trying to accomplish.

#21 xracer

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 05:09 PM

You really do have some pressure issues on both. Might want to take another look at what you are trying to accomplish.


Just trying to come up with a reasonable load. Like I said, 4.3 caused failure to feed issues so I had to go hotter, 4.4 and 4.5 seem fine but 4.6 I'm sure would eventually lead to disaster. Question is, should I go with 4.4 or 4.5? By the way, these were all trickled out, no need for a powder measure yet. Is there anything to note on either of these photos? Do the primers look ok? 4.45 would be good but don't think I can get there. 4.4 might work but I'm a tad concerned about FTF at 4.3 and would like to go with 4.5.

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Edited by xracer, 11 October 2011 - 05:12 PM.


#22 Jon Merricks

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 06:25 PM

What's the purpose? Fun, competition, etc? The primers are showing flow from the preasure. What's the crimp? What kind of primers? Did you chrono?

#23 xracer

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 02:58 AM

The purpose is fun, I shoot targets at the range and bottles and jugs of water at a farm. The primers ar Winchester Small Pistol Primers and I really dont know the crimp, my cousin has the press and other than remembering is not being a heavy crimp I just don't know. No chrono. Does the left photo (#4) show too much flow in the primer? I'm in trouble if it does since just a tenth less doesn't even work my gun.. With my P-89 we always loaded light, the Beretta PX-4 Compact will not function with those light loads, every shot was either a stovepipe or a failure to feed.

#24 Hi-Power Jack

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:38 AM

, my cousin has the press No chrono. Does the left photo (#4) show too much flow in the primer?


Xracer, for about $40 each, you and your cousin might want to
invest in a chronograph. Since you're just plinking - you
can load the rounds down real low - more enjoyable.

Then, if the rounds work in all your guns except one - you
could change to lighter springs in that one gun and shoot
the lighter loads in that gun also.

Sounds like you both do quite a bit of reloading - the chrono
really makes it all a little safer.

Good luck,

Jack
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#25 OperationHitFactor

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 12:17 PM


You really do have some pressure issues on both. Might want to take another look at what you are trying to accomplish.


Just trying to come up with a reasonable load. Like I said, 4.3 caused failure to feed issues so I had to go hotter, 4.4 and 4.5 seem fine but 4.6 I'm sure would eventually lead to disaster. Question is, should I go with 4.4 or 4.5? By the way, these were all trickled out, no need for a powder measure yet. Is there anything to note on either of these photos? Do the primers look ok? 4.45 would be good but don't think I can get there. 4.4 might work but I'm a tad concerned about FTF at 4.3 and would like to go with 4.5.


Wow, there are a lot of different variables in that. FTF could be caused by several factors other than the load. If you search the forum for loads for your type of gun then scroll through the post most likely you can find what issues people had and what loads worked best for your type of gun. Just be careful and make sure you have a good set of safety glasses.




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