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Why is the XD/XDM unpopular?


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#51 Kevin LA

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:56 AM

I have found the high bore axis statement from some folks interesting so I measured from the center of the bore to where the grip met my hand on my Glock, my XD and my 1911 SS. The Glock had the lowest distance, about .10" shorter than the XD. But my 1911 was .20" higher than the XD. From my perspective (and I mainly shoot SS), a gun with an external hammer is always going to have a higher bore axis than a striker fired system. YMMV.

This is my observation as well when I compare xd9 with 1911. Thanks mr. 10mm for measuring them. I don't understand why so many ppl bashing xd for high bore axis.

#52 Duke Nukem

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:29 AM

I measured the following guns and going from highest bore axis to lowest is....

1911
XDM
M&P
Glock



This is my observation as well when I compare xd9 with 1911. Thanks mr. 10mm for measuring them. I don't understand why so many ppl bashing xd for high bore axis.



#53 Kevin LA

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 02:12 PM

My point is you don't hear as many 1911 shooter complaining about high bore axis, which is even higher than xd.

#54 Standby!

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:34 PM

Because there are too many sheep in competition shooting...It's not my intent to insult anyone, I'm just observing what I've seen. I've had owners of pistols costing 3-4 times as much (the 1911 crowd) sneer at my XD 9 Tactical, and say..when are you gonna get a real gun? Well, I didn't have the heart to say, when you can shoot a complete match with yours without a malfunction, I may consider it. The only approval I need is on the score card. My XD has had some upgrades, trigger work, sights, etc. It runs like a champ, if I do my part...it does it's part. The reason I chose it were feel, cost, and ability to customize with the upgrades mentioned before. Shoot what you like, and if it feels right..run with it! Talent takes you further than aggressive spending.

Edited by Standby!, 01 September 2011 - 01:54 PM.

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#55 Powder River

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 01:18 PM

[quote name='Justsomeguy' timestamp='1283501803' post='1282722']
The main problem seems to me to be the availability of parts for competition shooters. You can buy drop in trigger kits for Glocks that'll take 'em down to 2-2 1/2lbs and many other aftermarket parts are available at good prices. M&P parts I don't know about. I don't own one so I'm not up to minute on what S&W will or will not sell you at this time. I do know from working on some of their revolvers in the past that they would sell you just about anything you asked for for those. M&P's triggers are quite easy to do, though you need some mechanical aptitude or gunsmithing skills. XD's... not so much. Though trigger parts are now readily available, they require more skill to install and most times do not get you to that same level of pull as the Glock drop in's do, and they lighten up the striker fall somewhat too if you go for the maximum reduction in pull. However, the results are surprisingly good from the various kits I have installed (Both Springer and Powder River). Things like strikers themselves and other internals are much harder to come by for XD's. Things are looking up though, and as more and more people use these guns in competition, other aftermarket parts will become available.

We Just released our Drop In trigger kit for the XDM. The results are impressive about 45% reduction in trigger movement and around 3.5-4.5LBS trigger pull with out any fitting. You can take a look at by following the link.

PRP XDM Drop In Trigger Kit

As for the slide weight...I Think that SA has did an out standing job. The new 5.25 9mm slide has the same weight as the 4.5 and the 3.8 9mm down to the gram. Also the .40cal slides are slightly heaver than the 9mm's as it should be.

#56 Hamma Slamma

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:07 PM

last year I did a little research, went to a few local gun stores, and kinda had in the back of my head an idea of what I wanted. I've been shooting a BHP for quite a few years now and knew it was time for an upgrade. So I wasn't ready yet to "pull the trigger" yet (pun intended har har) but my friend bought a glock. I shot it, it was ok, I hated the sights, but that's easily corrected. I just didn't like the feel. Also after seeing that dumb ATF agent shoot himself in the leg with a class full of kids, and I learned you have to pull the trigger to decock before a strip, that was a saftey violation in my mind and was an immediate dq for the glock.

Then my sis in law wanted to buy her first gun, told me what she had to spend and I told her she could get a good gun for the money. We hit the local gun store. She tried a few guns including the glock and M&P and I think a sig or two. None of them she liked. On the other side of the store they had the spring fields and I said, the XDM is good gun. She picked it up and immediately liked the feel and though she wanted the 2-tone she bought the black model 4.5". I got a chance to shoot it and it was at the time the most accurate out of the box pistol I've ever shot. I was ripping up the paper with a brand new gun I've never shot before and it was beautifully sighted in.

I was still in the market for a new gun, but hadn't had the money yet because I wanted to buy a shot gun, was starting a 2nd business, etc.. (life happens) I had my choice narrowed down to the M&P pro because I wanted to get into competition and really wanted something longer than 4.5". Also the front sight and trigger pull on the pro was a plus over the xdm 4.5. Sorry XDM, I thought, it was always in the back of my head a little buyers remorse even though I didn't buy the M&P yet.

Then my book keeper expressed an interest in buying a pistol, and I sold him my kel-tec p9. Well he fell in love with shooting, what sane person wouldn't. But he wanted some thing full size so to the gun store we went. He asked what he should get, we tried the usual, the unusual and then I pushed him towards the xdm. he liked the feel. A few days later he went in and bought it. Ooops, he got the 45 instead of the 9 he wanted. Upon pickup I went to the store with him and noticed his mistake. The gun store graciously allowed him (and me Yay!) to try for free their 45 and their 9 xdm models on the range, just pay for ammo. I loved both and was suprised how accurate the 45 was because I guess I am a puss, I really don't like a 45 acp, or so I thought. Anyways he settled on the 9mm and a few days later he had it and I won a bet that I could keep a 4" group at 50 feet with it.

So people asked me since I was XDM's #1 cheerleader why I didn't own one yet. I always answered I want something longer than the 4.5. I almost bought the m&p a couple times, but the price locally was high and I just didn't feel like going the gun broker route. Then I heard the XDM was releasing the 5.25" and I put aside all thoughts of picking up the M&P pro. Immediately I wanted the xdm 5.25. Saturday 2 weeks ago I went to two gun stores, because I wanted to touch feel smell and taste the gun before I made the purchase. I saw the M&P pro had dropped in price substantially, enough that I was confused again which to get. Well last Saturday I reluctantly decided to pick up the M&P pro because it was $560 vs the DM 5.25 which was $730. After doing the math I figured the M&P would be cheaper even after buying the holsters and extra mag. So I went to buy the M&P.

I guess it was fate that I bought the XDM because when I went to buy the M&P 9 pro, they sold it already and the clerk (whom I'd never seen before) at the gun store was telling me he could not sell it to me anyways because I was not LE. WTF? That's another story. I immediately went to the other gun store recognizing my destiny and bought the XDM 5.25! So why did I buy the XDM? The only answer I can come up with is Fate, it was meant to be.


Sorry for the long post, I guess I felt like typing :) Either that or I'm in love

Edited by Hamma Slamma, 01 September 2011 - 08:15 PM.


#57 Powder River

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:01 AM

Congratulations on the new XDM 5.25" I doubt that you will ever have any regrets. In the long run the price of the pistol is a small part of the shooting equation... after ammo, mags, and range fees ect. The funny thing is that it is usually the most agonizing purchase.

#58 grapemeister

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 10:05 AM

I love the grip safety on my XD's; especially for conceal carry. Why would someone want to disable it? I think it's a great safety feature for competition shooting, too. But, that's not why I bought it. It was on sale, and it felt good in the hand. Glocks, M&P's, CZ's, etc., are all good guns, too. But, I will continue to buy XD's because they are very familiar to me now, and why switch to something less familar when I'm trying to progress in practical shooting.

Chris

#59 Philo_Beddoe

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 10:14 AM

I love the grip safety on my XD's; especially for conceal carry. Why would someone want to disable it? I think it's a great safety feature for competition shooting, too. But, that's not why I bought it. It was on sale, and it felt good in the hand. Glocks, M&P's, CZ's, etc., are all good guns, too. But, I will continue to buy XD's because they are very familiar to me now, and why switch to something less familar when I'm trying to progress in practical shooting.

Chris



For me its the lack of a .22 LR practice XD/XDM gun or kit. I also dont like grip safeties, they annoy me.

I think more is made about the bore axis then the reality of it being a hinderance.

#60 IHAVEGAS

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 05:25 AM

"I think more is made about the bore axis then the reality of it being a hinderance."

 

I think it is one of those things that we lay people focus on because it is easy to see and measure. It seems likely that marketing people are also quick to pick up on this for the same reason. 

 

A skilled mechanical engineer could take a look at the entire spring/mass system of gun 'a' versus gun 'b' and probably give a fair evaluation of relative recoil performance. Most likely the reports would be boring to read though so we would probably still elect to stick with the 'bore axis' thing :). As I sit here with gun in hand pondering the guns reaction when fired I wonder about things like recoil spring axis & slide weight & etc.. 



#61 bigdawgbeav

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:01 AM

I owned a Glock 19 for 10 years.  I didn't shoot it that much mostly because I didn't like the way it felt.  But I didn't know any better,  fast forward and I got my hands on an XDM and loved it.  The 5.25 is my competition piece and it's an awesome gun.  Feels good in my hand and I can shoot it well.  I love that the mags are metal and eject quickly.  In competition I keep seeing folks having to shake their guns or manually strip the mag out (mostly Glocks).

 

Just feels good to me.  Some folks are gonna hate, but that's their problem.



#62 bajaholic

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:40 AM

I originally went with a Glock because I got a good deal on it, but was never comfortable shooting it.  (after about 50 rounds my hand started to bother me), So I went on a quest to find the best for me plastic gun.  I tried holding about everything out there walking around the gun shows, until I picked up the Steyr S40-A1.  I was instantly hooked, the ergonomics were perfect for me, and once I shot it, the trigger, recoil basically everything about the gun was what I was looking for at that time. Up to this time it was mainly for protection and daily carry.

 

I then discovered shooting sports....  And after a number of matches, I realized it was not the best model for what I was attempting to achieve.  (It has a 3.5" Barrel)  I Looked into the Steyr L40-A1,(same grip, caliber, etc but a 4.75" Barrel) Unfortunately it is not yet available in the US.  Hopefully sometime this summer.  

 

So I went shopping again, and purchased the Para Pro Comp Custom 14-45.  It has been night and day better for the Shooting Sports and it has much of the same ergonomics as the Steyr, but is a full size, Double stack 1911 Chassis.

 

Once the Steyr L40-A1's become available, (I still have one on order) we will see which gun I feel the most comfortable with moving forward.  

 

I think it really comes down to which gun feels the best in your hand, and then from there the best use of the gun for what you are trying to do with it.  My Wife has an XD, and absolutely loves it, but it was again....  The gun that fit her the best when she tried holding the different manufacturers.



#63 bowenbuilt

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:10 AM

The reason you hear the bore axis comment so much about the XD and the XDm is because there is a huge difference between the muzzle flip/control between the XD/XDm and the Glock platform. I own both the XD 9 Tactical and the XDm 5.25 fully accessorized and the difference when shooting the 2 platforms is readily apparent. I love the refined look and feel of the XD's, the grip angle, grip size and the adjustable sights on the XDm are  great out of the box features but when you shoot these guns side by side with Glock, MP or even Ruger's SR9 the control difference is a no contest. I have not measured the difference in bore axis between the 2 but the difference is easily seen and felt. I would be the first person in line to purchase another XD pistol if the barrel and slide were lowered more into the frame. The 2 pistols I have are 100% reliable and both are super accurate just as they came out of the box and with the addition of tungsten guide rods and mag wells to add a little weight and the excellent PRP trigger kits they are a much refined polymer pistol to be sure. I purchased these 2 pistols for my wife to shoot because she loved the way the grip felt in her smaller hands but because she cannot hold on to them during long strings of shooting steel they very rarely ever get shot now.

I realize that this post is not going to win any friends on here but through all the bore axis comments in this post no one actually mentioned shooting the 2 platforms side by side and this is what you will need to do in order to form a good opinion. Once you do this the bore axis comments will make a lot more sense, I in no way wish to start any animosity but this is the truth as I have experienced it.


Edited by bowenbuilt, 14 June 2014 - 06:34 AM.

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#64 IHAVEGAS

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:50 AM

The reason you hear the bore axis comment so much about the XD and the XDm is because there is a huge difference between the muzzle flip/control between the XD/XDm and the Glock platform. I own both the XD 9 Tactical and the XDm 5.25 fully accessorized and the difference when shooting the 2 platforms is readily apparent. I love the refined look and feel of the XD's, the grip angle, grip size and the adjustable sights on the XDm are  great out of the box features but when you shoot these guns side by side with Glock, MP or even Ruger's SR9 the control difference is a no contest. I have not measured the difference in bore axis between the 2 but the difference is easily seen and felt. I would be the first person in line to purchase another XD pistol if the barrel and slide were lowered more into the frame. The 2 pistols I have are 100% reliable and both are super accurate just as they came out of the box and with the addition of tungsten guide rods and mag wells to add a little weight and the excellent PRP trigger kits they are a much refined polymer pistol to be sure. I purchased these 2 pistols for my wife to shoot because she loved the way the grip felt in her smaller hands but because she cannot hold on to them during long strings of shooting steel they very rarely ever get shot now.

I realize that this post is not going to win any friends on here but through all the bore axis comments in this post no one actually mentioned shooting the 2 platforms side by side and this is what you will need to do in order to form a good opinion. Once you do this the bore axis comments will make a lot more sense, I in no way wish to start any animosity but this is the truth as I have experienced it.

 

Disclaimer - My only experience here is with 9mm 125 - 135 power factor competition loads. Larger caliber / hotter loads might make things different.

 

For me, my Glock 34 was a lot harder to control for follow up shots than either my XD's or the 5.25 XDm (sold now, I prefer the XD's). In my case I think it was about the particulars of the gun/human interaction rather than the inherent nature of the guns. The Glock did not point naturally for me (I'm one of those who would be a natural bird hunter with a Glock) so I think I was always fighting the gun to bring the muzzle down rather than things happening sort of naturally with the XD. The perception I get going back and forth is just that the XD makes things easier, recoil with either at minor pf does not seem like much. 

In any case, side by side comparisons to find out what works best for the individual makes a lot of sense.  



#65 Vanniek71

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:51 PM

I ran an XDM for a few years and it never failed me, nor was it hard to shoot. Call me an against the grainer but I didn't like the other tupperware (and I shot them all at one point or another) the XDM fit me well and I was pretty successful shooting it too. Only reason I switched is because I got the CZ itch and love that gun as well. Still have my XDM as a backup gun, and will likely never get rid of it.


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#66 bountyhunter

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:14 PM

I DO NOT want to start a controversy. With that said Im just curious why YOU picked another type of tupperware. Ive done the research, Ive shot most of whats available and I know what I like.

Im not looking to convince anyone to change anything. Im curious what your reasons were for choosing the XDM over everything else or vice versa.

My reason was simple. My XDM .40 fits me well and I shoot it well. I love the way it feels and the way it points. Glocks grip angle throws me and I dont really like the MP trigger though it feels pretty good in my hand. They all run...

So chime in, i wanna hear what you have to say...


I don't want to turn it into a Glock bash thread, but I am intimately familar with the Glock design as well as the SA XD and IMHO, the XD design is the best striker fired service weapon available. There are multiple reasons I believe this, to summarize: the XD is better designed, has better safeties, has a better trigger system (which can easily be tuned up to a very good pull).
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#67 Loves2Shoot

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 07:15 PM

The reason you hear the bore axis comment so much about the XD and the XDm is because there is a huge difference between the muzzle flip/control between the XD/XDm and the Glock platform. I own both the XD 9 Tactical and the XDm 5.25 fully accessorized and the difference when shooting the 2 platforms is readily apparent. I love the refined look and feel of the XD's, the grip angle, grip size and the adjustable sights on the XDm are  great out of the box features but when you shoot these guns side by side with Glock, MP or even Ruger's SR9 the control difference is a no contest. I have not measured the difference in bore axis between the 2 but the difference is easily seen and felt. I would be the first person in line to purchase another XD pistol if the barrel and slide were lowered more into the frame. The 2 pistols I have are 100% reliable and both are super accurate just as they came out of the box and with the addition of tungsten guide rods and mag wells to add a little weight and the excellent PRP trigger kits they are a much refined polymer pistol to be sure. I purchased these 2 pistols for my wife to shoot because she loved the way the grip felt in her smaller hands but because she cannot hold on to them during long strings of shooting steel they very rarely ever get shot now.

I realize that this post is not going to win any friends on here but through all the bore axis comments in this post no one actually mentioned shooting the 2 platforms side by side and this is what you will need to do in order to form a good opinion. Once you do this the bore axis comments will make a lot more sense, I in no way wish to start any animosity but this is the truth as I have experienced it.

Sound like you need to work on your grip. I cant notice ANY noticeable difference in flip, even on the high speed camera.


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#68 bowenbuilt

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 03:20 AM

I don't have a problem with my grip. When you see someone shoot these guns that does not possess a lot of grip strength that is when the difference is most apparent. I am not complaining just stating a fact. I had always heard that the higher the bore axis the more muzzle flip the gun would generate, the gun generating more has nothing to do with grip, it is what it is. Now that I have seen it with my own eyes and felt it with my own hands nothing you can say will prove otherwise to me. I would not expect you to have commented differently. The difference is there whether anyone chooses to admit or not. Being able to control it on film is another subject altogether. With the proper grip and grip strength yes it can be controlled, I would not argue that point at all.
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#69 IHAVEGAS

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 04:28 AM

 I had always heard that the higher the bore axis the more muzzle flip the gun would generate, 

 

I suspect that this is strictly accurate in the case of revolvers & perhaps all single action rifles and pistols and shotguns.

When you look at where the recoil force is applied in semi-auto pistols it does not seem reasonable that you can discount guide rod elevation, striker spring reset action & etc. Perhaps you can just look at the one thing and ignore the rest of the gun, I don't claim expertise, but this seems like one of those apples and oranges comparisons. 


Edited by IHAVEGAS, 18 June 2014 - 04:29 AM.


#70 Loves2Shoot

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:28 AM

I don't have a problem with my grip. When you see someone shoot these guns that does not possess a lot of grip strength that is when the difference is most apparent. I am not complaining just stating a fact. I had always heard that the higher the bore axis the more muzzle flip the gun would generate, the gun generating more has nothing to do with grip, it is what it is. Now that I have seen it with my own eyes and felt it with my own hands nothing you can say will prove otherwise to me. I would not expect you to have commented differently. The difference is there whether anyone chooses to admit or not. Being able to control it on film is another subject altogether. With the proper grip and grip strength yes it can be controlled, I would not argue that point at all.

There is the rub, bore axis is only one factor. The only reason a gun flips up is because you have a pivot point below the point where the bullet is exiting the barrel. On a Glock grip, it is angled much more than an XDM, this means that your weak hand leverage on the bottom of the grip is typically less than the XDM, which is straighter. You really have to turn your hand over on the Glock to get leverage at the very bottom of the grip to get the most leverage to counteract recoil. Combine that with too much pressure with the strong hand and flip is enhanced. I have a very tiny wife with very little grip strength, and if it doesn't make a difference to her, that is why I am of the opinion technique is much more important that the small differences in ANY of the modern service pistols.  


Edited by Loves2Shoot, 18 June 2014 - 09:29 AM.

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#71 BritinUSA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:37 AM

I think there are way too many variables in determining muzzle-flip, give the same gun to two different people and with one it will look like they're shooting a .22 and the other one will be pointing the gun at the moon after every shot.

 

Find the gun that works for you, if there is no perfect gun out there, then find the one that's closest to perfection for you and practice with it until you adapt to the gun.

 

I hope to be shooting my XDM 5.25 soon (just waiting for magazines), it will be a huge change for me as I've been shooting almost exclusively with an Open gun for nearly 25 years.



#72 MTGlass

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:43 AM

Higher bore axis is probably why I bought my first XD.  Glock slide bite prompted me to sell my G19 10-12 years ago and buy an XD .40 Service later that same day.  Until about a month ago I'd not shot another Glock; that is until I picked a Gen4 G19 from a prize table, just because, and a guy on my squad was shooting a Glock with a beavertail attachment.

 

FWIW, I made it to the prize table shooting an XDm 5.25, one of three XDm's I now own.

 

The G19 will probably go to college with my daughter.  Until then, at least I don't go home with a bloody slide and a sore hand.



#73 bigdawgbeav

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:32 AM

What's funny is asking the question why the XD/XDM is unpopular...  Then I looked and realized this thread was started in 2010 and recently revived.  (the tip off was PRP stating they "just released" the drop-in trigger.) I imagine that 4 years ago it was slightly unpopular with the amount of Glocks in competition.  Since then the platform has gained incredible popularity.

 

When I SO squads at matches I'm seeing a number of 5.25's out there in all divisions.  (of course, none look as sweet as mine!).  So the guns have gained huge popularity.  This past weekend I had 8 people in my squad... 4 of us were using XDM's.  2 .45 5.25's, one 9mm 5.25 and a 9mm 3.8 compact.

 

If they weren't popular I don't think that Springer, Powder River, Canyon Creek and Pistol Gear would be making/selling parts.

 

Until I can afford a 2011-style for competition I'll be more than happy to shoot my XDM.  And even then, might just stick with it as it's been great for me.  And pretty too!  (you get extra points in sanctioned matches for firearm fashion)


Edited by bigdawgbeav, 23 June 2014 - 07:07 PM.





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