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Zero 230 gr FMJ in 1911 recommended OAL?


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#1 Dollargeneral

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 12:16 PM

RECOMMENDATIONS for OAL.

Zero Bullet: 45 Acp (.451 Diameter) - 230 GR FMJ
Winchester Primer
Starline Brass
VN 320 / VN 340 / Bullseye (Powders on hand)

When I drop my reloads into my Taurus 1911 they stop just shy of flush. They need to be slammed in with the Slide. I have noticed this at many different OALS. Is this normal?? How do I Fix??

Thanks

#2 elenius

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 12:19 PM

I load mine to 1.255". Never actually checked them in the barrel but they work great :)

#3 TDean

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 12:53 PM

Make sure you're not crimping too much as it can cause the case to swell just behind the mouth....causing chambering issues. Crimp to remove belling, no more.
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#4 Steve J

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 01:44 PM

1.25" has always worked great for me. 1.266" is the milspec max, but some reloading manuals will give you 1.27".

Edited by Steve J, 12 May 2010 - 01:45 PM.

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#5 MichiganShootist

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 01:55 PM

1.25 works on all my 1911s.

Are you sure it's not a re-sizing problem????????

#6 DougCarden

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 01:58 PM

1.220 to 1.230 OAL will work with pretty much all the 230FMJ bullets out there, from Zero, Precision Delta, and the Plated 230s from Berrys and Rainiers as well. Some of the ogives are different, and the longer you get, the more you may have problems with your slide stop if it hasn't been "modified" for the longer OAL loaded rounds(last round bumping up the slide stop). If it will fit in the magazine, it will normally feed ok as well!
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#7 Bigpike

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 02:15 PM

I load to 1.250 for my Taurus 1911. Works with both Montana Gold and Precision Delta FMJ 230 g. Works every time.

#8 Dollargeneral

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:05 PM

Make sure you're not crimping too much as it can cause the case to swell just behind the mouth....causing chambering issues. Crimp to remove belling, no more.



Thanks, I will check that. Truth is I had no idea how much crimp to put on. To me it made sense to make as much of the ridge disappear without denting bullet too much.

#9 Dollargeneral

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:07 PM

1.220 to 1.230 OAL will work with pretty much all the 230FMJ bullets out there, from Zero, Precision Delta, and the Plated 230s from Berrys and Rainiers as well. Some of the ogives are different, and the longer you get, the more you may have problems with your slide stop if it hasn't been "modified" for the longer OAL loaded rounds(last round bumping up the slide stop). If it will fit in the magazine, it will normally feed ok as well!
Good luck,
DougC



I had loaded many Precision Black bullets to 1.235. They also had to be "bumped in". They fed fine thru magazine and always cycled I was just told by another reloader that when the slide was back I should be able to drop in barrel and it would seat and then come out without sticking. It came out fine, but didn't go all the way in.

#10 Dollargeneral

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:10 PM

1.25" has always worked great for me. 1.266" is the milspec max, but some reloading manuals will give you 1.27".


The Vihitavouri says to load to 1.26 but their data was on a 6"barrel. I am using 320 for my next batch and I think I will try 1.25.

Thanks

#11 Boats

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 04:27 PM

No matter what the manuals say every gun is different.

I recomend making up a dummy round too long. Paint the nose with black marker and seat by trial and error until it jams the barrels leade. Witness marks left on the black marker will tell. Thats your first dim. Next see how long will fit in all your mags. Record that dim too. Then see what will ride up the feed ramp every time no hangs write that one down too. Once I figure all three for Auto pistols intended for matches that jams cost points I back off a bit and use it for my standard Dim. It's critical to set it for each different bullet as the nose shape makes a differnce some times considerable

Understand some matches allow "Aliby's So long and jaming the leade may be more accurate at no cost in match scores. Others like the matches guys on this board shoot pay a large price for jams and you don't want any. Bolt rifles loaded single shot I like to push the bullet into the lead everytime.

On the Crimp. It's hard to measure Crimp without some sort of jig to hold your mike at the same spot everytime. I use a magnifier to set my crimp. Auto pistols I like a firm bullet, won't move when pressed with my thumb. All the flare rolled out and no more, no deforming of the bullet at all. Best way to set it is again a dummy round and trial and error. Once it's right I measure the distance from the bottom of my press were the case goes in to the top of the die and top of the seating stem. That way I can repeat the setting easy.

4 45 ACP's, two 625 Smith Revolvers two Colt 1911's OAL I use is different each one.

Boats

#12 elenius

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:32 AM

If you load too short, they will nose dive into the feed ramp. If you load too long the gun will fail to go into battery.

What I did was load up some dummies at the length you think is right, then hand cycle the gun slowly and check for the two problems mentioned above and adjust the length accordingly.

If the gun feeds well when you hand cycle it slowly, it should work well when it's cycling by itself too. Note that some resistance is ok, but is should definitely go into battery by itself if you drop it from almost in battery position.

Another thing worth checking is the recoil spring. With a weak recoil spring, the gun will not feed as well. I use a 16# in my single stacks. Anything less seems to compromise feeding reliability in my guns.

#13 TDean

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:06 AM

All good stuff, but I think the poster's issue is that cartridges are not headspacing correctly. :cheers:
God bless the USA.

#14 leemoe83

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:40 AM

I shoot 230 g. zeros in an M&P compact, I load them to 1.250 in., got more consistent velocity at shorter length, I run them a little light for IDPA match loads.

#15 CSEMARTIN

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 12:04 PM

1.250 inches is perfect. How much crimp is on your finished round? Off the top of my head, .469" is fine. The 45 doesn't need a lot of crimp. It just needs to cycle. Do you have a case gage? I'd start there. My guess is it won't gage. Is your sizing die adjusted right? You might not be sizing the case correctly. If you don't get all the way down on the case, you're going to have feeding issues. Meausre the width at the base of one of your finished rounds and check that with specs in your reloading manual. Off the top of my head, I believe .470" is the magic number.

If your round gages, the ammo is fine and the problem is with the gun. Are you have problems with just your reloads, or are you also having problems with factory ammo?

Another option is to have a gunsmith check your chamber with a go/no-go gage. I doubt that'll be necessary unless you're also having problems with factory ammo.

Good Luck!

#16 Mojave

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 12:14 PM

I agree that the issue doesn't seem to be with the OAL at all. If the rounds are fitting the magazine and chambering (at least until they stick) it sounds like a brass issue. Headspacing and overcrimping are sound theories. I have no experience with Starline brass so it's hard for me to comment further.

I've loaded hundreds of Zero 230's into WIN brass at an OAL of 2.250" (+/- .002") and have had zero issues through a Wilson Combat CQB Elite nor a Springfield Champion.

#17 elenius

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 04:21 PM

I also crimp to .469"

#18 dab

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:00 PM

I had the same issue and crimp was the problem. I crimped down to .471" and my rounds easily fed into the chamber.

#19 Atlas

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 02:56 PM

What bullet closest resembles the Zero 230fmj? I never see that in my load manuals and it seems a bit more substantial than other 230fmj such as Federal American eagle FMJ bullet.

#20 Steve RA

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:06 PM

The way to check the "crimp" is to use a small straight edge, like a razor blade, and the side of the case should be perfectly straight.
The bullet is held by case tension. Only reason for a crimp turned into a grove, or even without a grove, is in a revolver and is to keep the bullets in the unfired rounds from moving forward and jamming the cylinder rotation.

Ideally, the powder drop should leave the case somewhat undersize so that you end up with the "Wasp Waist" effect in the loaded rounds.

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#21 Jan R.

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

I always use a Lee Undersize Die and load to 1.250.
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#22 BDD

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:57 AM

I set mine at 1.270". I started with some empty rounds at 1.400 and would try to cycle them through the gun fast. Just kept decreasing the length till I could cycle them through really fast with no problems.

#23 RH45

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:45 AM

I used to load to 1.25" for my single stacks, with Zero 230 fmj, and they worked perfect, but, going to an STI double stack, I've found that there are variations in the internal dimensions of STI and SVI magazines, and some wouldn't run 1.25", so I now load to 1.23"




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