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G34 - Light Primer Strikes


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#1 gunzoo

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:45 AM

I hit the range yesterday to shoot a few hundred rounds and ran into a pretty consistent problem. 35 out 500 rounds had light primer strikes and failed to ignite. I am using a reduced power Wolf 14# recoil spring and 4# Wolf striker spring. I am currently using Wolf primers but had the same issue with CCI primers. I really don't want to change out the striker-spring as the trigger is finally where I want it to be. *sigh* Or is it the recoil spring?

What are your thoughts? I know you'll say "put the factory striker-spring back in" but there has to be another option. Why would they even make a 4# spring if it had this high of a failure rate? There is no way I can compete with my gun being this unreliable but don't want to "go stock" either. Do any of you experience with this firing pin? Its supposed to have an extended firing pin to prevent light strikes? Thoughts?


Thanks,

~Mac

Edited by gunzoo, 20 March 2010 - 06:22 AM.


#2 ShootsinRain

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:19 AM

Getting a lighter trigger in a glock can be an experiment. You have to play with it until it works. I've had some glocks (with light triggers) light cci spp fine, others not. I only run federal spp in my g34 with the same striker spring and have no issues.

It is probably not the recoil spring but the lighter striker spring. I do have the glock worx striker but I haven't played around with it.

So try different components/parts. I would recommend trying the federal spp first, if you can get some.

Best of luck to you.
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#3 lugnut

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 07:23 AM

CCI primers are the hardest... I think Wolfs are too. If you can't find Federals try going to a heavier striker spring. Oh... and make sure your primers are seated well.. if they are not this could be the cause.
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#4 Nik Habicht

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:25 AM

Mac,
nice triggers are great, primers that reliably ignite are better..... :D :D

Some suggestions: If you're going to run a reduced power striker spring, you need to load Federal primers. If you're not, you need the stock weight spring, in my experience for 100% reliable ignition. (You maybe able to "get by" by replacing the reduced power striker spring frequently, how frequently you'll need to determine, and it may still bite you in the middle of a stage. Wolff does sell them in ten packs...)
If you're not reloading on a 1050, you're not seating primers far enough to be reliably ignited by a reduced power striker spring.....
If you're not reloading on a 1050, make sure you inspect primers for seat, and move any questionable rounds into a pile for practice. This is easily accomplished by using Dillon or Factory-style ammo boxes/trays....

Good luck! I know how frustrating that can be.....
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#5 gunzoo

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 02:51 PM

This is great feedback and I appreciate all the responses. Just to recap for anyone stumbling across this thread on Google or through the forum:

Lighter striker springs, on a Glock (Mine is a Glock 34), can cause primers not to ignite if:


1. You do not fully seat the primer. Check primers for full seating and if they are suspect, move them to the practice/ "I won't lose a competition if the primer doesn't ignite."

2. If you use primers known to have a hard cup i.e. thick coating

3. Or both 1 & 2 combined.


So it appears I'm off to the range to test some new combination of springs, primers, and primer seating depths.


Have a great weekend!


~Mac

Edited by gunzoo, 20 March 2010 - 03:07 PM.


#6 ShootsinRain

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 03:37 PM

I would also recommend trying one of the extended tip strikers. 1911 guys have been using them for years with alot of success for light triggers.

I have some win spp and federal small rifle loaded up to test one out my next time on the range.

Good luck.
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#7 spanky

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:31 PM

You could try a light striker..
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#8 eric nielsen

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:50 PM

I have not quite 5000 Wolf primers and they do not reliably light with the 4lb striker spring. To top that off, I now ALSO have about 5000 Federal small pistol primers, they have always lit reliably with the 4lb. The 4lb will also light a Federal small rifle primer. 4lb is not very reliable with CCI, worst of all [very touchy about off-center strikes] are Winchester primers.

Another press that makes very good Glock ammo is the Square Deal. You can wrap your fingers around the primer column and seat primers very hard with your thumb, seating the primers very far and even flattening them a little bit. Done this for about 16 years and the only part I broke - once - is the big crank handle itself.

Friend of mine broke the same part on a 550 - he seats primers with the right hand pushing fwd and the left hand pulling on the back of the press. Same effect on the primers.

If you have an overtravel stop you need to be sure the striker is free "tink tink" in both directions as you shake the gun back and forth after dry-firing it. Also you can shine a flashlite up the empty magwell to see if the drop-safety plunger is pressed in when dry-fired.

I have reduced my pretravel to the minimum that clears the drop-safety and the minimum overtravel to go "tink tink". Also got enough parts for 3 complete striker assemblies, with 4lb, 5lb, and 6lb springs. I marked them L, M, and H for light medium & heavy.

With the minimum travel and the Vanek smooth pull, I now prefer the 5lb spring, by far. Not heavy enough to upset my sights very much, WAY better reset, and it feels more consistent as friction spots don't spike up the resistance like the Light spring.

Try making 3 assemblies and spend a week or two doing all your practice & dry-fire with the Heavy. Bet you will feel like the Medium is easy and the Light is just too light.
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#9 Duane Thomas

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:38 PM

CCI and Wolf primers are both notoriously hard. Not what you want to be running in a Glock with a light firing pin spring, for sure.
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
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#10 edison

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 07:06 PM

Like Eric said, crush seating helps a lot. I have Wolf lot# 17-09. I've shot 700ish flawless so far once i started crush seating them(except for one FTF because the case was out of spec and i seated too deep) I'm using a Wolff 4lb striker with stock striker.

#11 Aircooled6racer

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 08:00 PM

Hello: A Lightening Strike steel striker will solve your problem and will last a very long time. You can also lighten your factory striker and it will work as well. I used some Wolf small rifle primers in my Glock 34 and they all went bang with the steel Lightening Strike striker. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

#12 eric nielsen

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:36 PM

I have a lightened striker on the way - I'll measure its weight against a stock striker & then put it in my Light setup.

I'll let you know if that setup lights my remaining Wolf primer ammo. I crushed the heck out of them & always pick the strongest feel spring out of my large box of Light springs, sometimes I'll stretch them too. Pretty bad Wolf failure rate with the 4lb.

Also I always cut one or two coils off a Medium spring and it lights everything without fail.
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#13 Duane Thomas

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:47 PM

sometimes I'll stretch them too

That may be part of your problem. Stretching a spring out doesn't make it stronger again. It severely weaken the spring and just makes it take a set even faster.
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
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#14 Duane Thomas

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:51 PM

You can wrap your fingers around the primer column and seat primers very hard with your thumb, seating the primers very far and even flattening them a little bit.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. How can you "wrap your finger around the primer column"? Are you talking about wrapping your offhand around the primer tube and using that to get more leverage as you push forward on the handle? And how can you "seat primers very hard with your thumb"?
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
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#15 eric nielsen

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:29 PM

The crank handle and the primer shield are both in my right hand at the same time as I finish the reloading motion & prime the next case.

It's like squeezing a pair of [large] pliers. Every single primer gets the same amount of force, which is a lot. With small hands it probably isn't possible.

Haven't stretched a striker spring in years but it did help way back when I had a G20 and parts were not as easy to buy as today. I could run thru a couple mags in practice with numerous failures, stop & stretch the spring, and continue on with all rounds going bang.

The 4lb striker springs are all weak and short-lived, my opinion. Imagine if 1911 mainsprings looked like that. I'm sure stretching does cut the lifespan.

Edited by eric nielsen, 21 March 2010 - 05:31 PM.

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#16 Duane Thomas

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:28 PM

The crank handle and the primer shield are both in my right hand at the same time as I finish the reloading motion & prime the next case.

Got it. I've done the same thing many times.

Now, "seat primers very hard with your thumb"?
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
- Sam

Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
- Paul "Bear" Bryant

"The only reason why Everest is the highest mountain ever climbed is because it's the highest. If there was one higher, I bet there'd be people trying to climb it."
- Jack Barnes

#17 eric nielsen

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:23 AM

I answered that. Thumb pushes forward, fingers squeeze back, same hand, crush a nice round Dillon-primer-seater-size crater in each primer. Repeat as necessary until ammo tray is full.

If they made a Square Deal case feeder it would be the coolest pistol-caliber loader ever. Short throw, I can load it sitting or standing, can change calibers in about 5 minutes but I have 2 of them so no need.
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#18 LPatterson

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:10 AM

Bought a new RCBS priming tool and it seats primers deeper than the 40 year old model. G24 & G24C 4# striker springs with polished striker & marine cups.
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#19 sslav

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:41 AM

IMHO lightened striker is a must with a lightened striker spring. That is what I have in my competition Glocks and they go bang every time without the need for Federal primers.
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#20 GForceLizard

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:46 AM

You should always use a lightened striker when using a light striker spring.

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#21 Micah

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 03:47 AM

You should always use a lightened striker when using a light striker spring.


I agree, and getting a striker that is a little bit longer will also assist you when using harder primers. Vanek/Jager sell such a tool.

I know that you are using what primers you have available, but going forward, if you are unable to find Federal primers, give Winchester SP primers a try. They are the second best on the market behind Fed.
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#22 ALBY

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 04:45 AM

my kids glock failed at the sccsa match this past weekend and it was because the former owner had clipped 4 coils off the striker spring. i got stuck loading magtech primers (out of desperation) and this revealed the problem. they are apparently harder than WSP. also, that lot of primers seemed oversized and were a complete pain to load. no more magtech for me.

i switched back to the stock spring for reliability. the trigger is a touch heavier, but reliability factor trumps all.

#23 gunzoo

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:50 PM

UPDATE

Today was a range day and I ran across a few thousand Winchester small pistol primers and decided to load them up and compare them on the range. I'm loading on a Dillon 650 and decided to be extra firm on the seating stroke of each primer. I shot 250 rounds with ZERO failures. I switched over to Wolf primed rounds and had one failure to ignite out of 100.

The lesson I learned was primers matter and seating them properly matters a lot. Also, I'll def buy a lighter firing-pin and hopefully that will be that.


God I love shooting!!!



~Mac

Edited by gunzoo, 23 March 2010 - 08:13 PM.


#24 Aircooled6racer

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:17 PM

Hello: I shot an IDPA match this past Sunday and had guys saying things about the quality of the primers. I asked to see the rounds that did not go bang and guess what? They all had high primers :surprise: Some were 9mm, 40 and 45. Different reloaders were used so it came down to operator error. Another reason I love my Dillon RL1050 :cheers: I loads on my 550 as well but check the primer seating when I put them in there little blue boxes. A lightened striker will help with the strike force but it will not help with high primers. Glad to hear you are on the right path. Thanks, Eric

#25 eric nielsen

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 11:16 AM

Got the lightened OEM striker from forum member JerseyGlock - it looks very good, better than I would've done for sure. It weighs 88 grains vs the original part's 114 grains. In the very unscientific pencil-shooting test, with a Light spring it fired better than my Medium spring and striker.

Remembered that the Medium has a little bit blunted tip from its days in an Open Glock. Put an almost-new striker with full tip into the Medium assembly. It beats JG's striker plus Light spring, but not by much. Sort of confirms what people say about an tip length and Light-striker/Light-spring. Might be able to shoot it this Saturday.

Been looking for a while at how far the striker is un-sprung at the end of its travel. Part of this is to let the next cartridge coming out of the magazine push the striker back out of the breach face. But then there's excess beyond that, striker sits behind flush. That is removed by the time the slide is closed - now the striker is held far behind the breach face. I want to go to JUST flush before the trigger bar grabs it.

My question - before I try it myself: Has anyone tried removing some of that un-sprung distance? Near as I can tell, that would be accomplished by removing a little material from the rear of the plastic sleeve, where it pushes on the slide's end-plate. Safety concerns? Dumb-idea concerns? More sprung distance should mean more acceleration time, at the cost of a minor drop in initial tension.

Edited by eric nielsen, 24 March 2010 - 11:25 AM.

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